VOICE - General Meeting for 2004-01-10

VOICE - General Meeting for 2004-01-10
12:15:51 <WalterOS2> This meeting of VOICE is now in session. <wdl> Vacation: Yup. See http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/antarctica.html I think that's it. <WalterOS2> Bill: I'm not able to connect. <MADeCSSMP> works here <MADeCSSMP> What no pics of you doing the tango Bill? <crimso> LOL. Nice photos! <wdl> Got *1oos* of pictures - only a few on the web. I do tango, though... <wdl> Oop: "1oos" = "100s" <WalterOS2> Well I've tried both Mozilla and Netscape. No Joy. <WalterOS2> Hello Vaughn <WarpedOS2> Firebird works good here, Hi Walter <WalterOS2> Oh well. <WarpedOS2> So does Thunderbird .4 <WalterOS2> I thought Thunderbird was an email program. <WarpedOS2> it is...and it works pretty good comparing it to PMMAIL <MADeCSSMP> great pics Bill <wdl> I just connected to http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/antarctica.html -- it works fine. <wdl> MADeCSSMP: Thank you. <WalterOS2> I just tried from my other desktop. That didn't work either. <WalterOS2> Hmmm. <MADeCSSMP> Maybe a cache or DNS problem. <WalterOS2> Who knows. <WalterOS2> I'll worry about it later. <WalterOS2> Let's get started on the Agenda. <wdl> WalterOS2: I think the 'net is having problems. I tried dozens of IRC connections trying to get here. All but this gave me "Host not found", or similar. <crimso> irc.be.webbnet.info works fine. <WalterOS2> There isn't any "Old Business", so moving to "New Business". <WalterOS2> Item B1: Treasurer's Report. <WalterOS2> I emailed Peter three days ago, but got no response. :-( <crimso> If Peter can't or does not want to continue, he'd better tell the board right away. It's no shame. But the treasurer's business has to be done. <WalterOS2> Agreed. <WalterOS2> OK, I'll put it on the agenda for the next meeting, and think about it in the meantime. <WalterOS2> I would appreciate you guys thinking about it to. <WalterOS2> to=too. <MADeCSSMP> Do you know what bank the account is in? <WalterOS2> I **think** it's in the bank of Nova Scotia. <WalterOS2> I think Peter's mentioned it once or twice. If I search back in the logs, I should be able to find it. <MADeCSSMP> If you can't get Peter to add Bill then you are going to have to contact the bank to see what if anything can be done. <WarpedOS2> I guess I should know...I have recieved a couple from Norman Sales <WalterOS2> Mark: As President of Warpstock, could you find the cheques VOICE used in the pass to make contributions to WS? <WalterOS2> The bank would be on any of those. <WalterOS2> Vaughn: That would work as well. <MADeCSSMP> WarpedOS2: Walter those would have been returned to Peter after having been cashed. <WalterOS2> Right. Walter bangs the side of head. :-) <WarpedOS2> yes..so not sure... <WarpedOS2> I thought it was bank of BC :-O <MADeCSSMP> Though a check paid to VOICE should have the bank and account number it was deposited into. <MADeCSSMP> Anyone have a recent cancelled check to VOICE? <WarpedOS2> Yes... Mark....I had one but that is over a year ago... hmmmm <WalterOS2> How long do you keep your cheques? <WarpedOS2> I file them, but last year has been archived... <WalterOS2> Hope "Archived" doesn't mean file 13. "-) <WalterOS2> I don't think I've ever written a cheque to VOICE. The only time I pay anything is for membership, and I do that online. <WarpedOS2> online...hmmm never done that.. <WalterOS2> Well I've already added the subject to the agenda for the next meeting, and I'll do some digging before then. <WalterOS2> Vaughn, if you could try to find one of those cheques, it would be a big help. <WalterOS2> Anyone have any other comments? <WalterOS2> About the treasurer issue, I mean. <WalterOS2> OK, next item: VOICE2 Conversion Report. <WalterOS2> For this, I'll turn the floor over to Ken. <KenKrchnr> I just put voice2 back online yesterday, and mail this morning. <KenKrchnr> The mail versions are as on voice1 right now. <KenKrchnr> It will take a bit before we caqn say all is working as it should. <WalterOS2> Was there a problem with mail? <KenKrchnr> Mail had not been put back to voice2 since I went on vacation. <KenKrchnr> When I got back I started testing on another server, but not voice stuff. <WalterOS2> I thought your email said you had put in on VOICE2. <crimso> There seems to be a problem with the FTP server. <KenKrchnr> I put it on this morning. <WalterOS2> I've been having problems with ftp as well. <KenKrchnr> What kind of ftp problem? <crimso> FTP connections often just kind of stall. <crimso> My client then states that there aren't any files in a directory. <KenKrchnr> When did that happen? <WalterOS2> With "passive" turned on the most I can upload is one file. :-( <crimso> After refreshing the directory content several times, it finally came back. <WalterOS2> I often need to upload several files (and directories) at once. <crimso> KenKrchnr: E.g. on January 5th when I tried to upload the Newsletter. <WalterOS2> VOICE1 handles that just fine without passive on. <KenKrchnr> OK, the ftp problem may be gone now that voice2 is back. <WarpedOS2> what ftp program you using for testing? <WalterOS2> Christian: Your problem sounds the same as mine. <crimso> WalterOS2: yes, exactly. <WarpedOS2> I find that emtftp has issues with Peter's ftp program <KenKrchnr> From 12/31 to 1/9 voice2 was running on a backup server. <WarpedOS2> I use JFTP and have NO issues now... <crimso> KenKrchnr: it also happened during December when I tried to upload/download files for the Newsletter translation. <eCSNL> hello <eCSNL> Ooops sorry about that.... <crimso> I'm using the F file manager. <WarpedOS2> hmmm never hear of that one crimso <crimso> http://filemanager.free.fr, really great stuff <eCSNL> Sorry I'm late was watching a movie... Had an extremely busy week was just sitting down, lost track of time :-) <KenKrchnr> One of the things I did while voice2 was offline was to take it out from behind our firewall and put its own fw software in. This should help the ftp problems. <WalterOS2> Ken: Yesterday, I needed upload my article and images to my www.warpdoctor.org/walter, and do a little housekeeping for the new year. I couldn't a think using voice2 with passive on. Without passive, it wouldn't make a connection. So I did my work on VOICE1 without passive on and everything worked great. <eCSNL> what topic on the agenda are we now ? <WalterOS2> think=do a thing. <crimso> eCSNL: migration to VOICE2 <WalterOS2> VOICE2==B2. <eCSNL> Oke... <eCSNL> There is no treasurer report I'm afraid ? <crimso> Nope. <WalterOS2> Roderick: Thanks for popping in. I know you're busy. <eCSNL> Ahaa KenKrchnr <KenKrchnr> Walter, you did u/l to voice2. Was that later? <eCSNL> what kind of troubles are you having with FTP ? <WalterOS2> No: that was what I did first. <WalterOS2> I may have uploaded a single document to voice2 for something else, but I'm not sure. <wdl> Hmmm... Am I still here? <crimso> KenKrchnr: I always used os2voice.org as address, no IP. <WalterOS2> wdl: I can see you. :-) <WalterOS2> Ken: So do I, now. <wdl> OK. System burped, and the dialer quit shwing incoming bytes. <KenKrchnr> Christian, could you try your ftp now as a test? <WalterOS2> Roderick: How long will you be able to stay? <eCSNL> Ohoo I can stay for another 2 hours... <WalterOS2> OK. :-) <crimso> KenKrchnr: sure, just wait a few minutes. <WalterOS2> While Christian and Ken are working on that, let's go back to the Treasurer issue, now that Roderick is here. <WarpedOS2> Wouldn't it be easier if someone was from Canada to be co treasurer? <WarpedOS2> seeing that the account is in Canada <WalterOS2> WarpedOS2: Are you volunteering. :-) <WarpedOS2> Well...I guess I am <MADeCSSMP> Guess Christian's attempt at FTP didn't go all that well. <MADeCSSMP> :-) <crimso> KenKrchnr: Copying files worked, but changing directories repeatedly causes the problem. Sometimes I can't even get to e\home\voice\public_html\files, for instance. <crimso> OK, refreshing several times did the trick. <KenKrchnr> You could copy multiple files? <crimso> Yes. <WarpedOS2> Walter..you still here? <KenKrchnr> Was that better than last time? <crimso> Deleting a directory that has a number of files in it fails most of the time. <crimso> KenKrchnr: Yes. <WalterOS2> Vaughn: here <WalterOS2> Vaughn: what would you like? <KenKrchnr> OK. Another thing I see is there is a different version of FTP server on voice1, maybe we'll try that. <WalterOS2> Hello Chrissy/Jeremy <Chrissy> hey <WalterOS2> Ken: Is the VOICE1 newer or older? <Rat-Salad> hey! just got done with practice <WalterOS2> Ken: VOICE1 server <WarpedOS2> Walter sure I can volunteer for assitant treasurer or something like that <WalterOS2> Hello Jeremy <crimso> KenKrchnr: Could you report the problem to Peter Moylan? <WalterOS2> Vaughn: OK, thanks! I'll get back you. <KenKrchnr> Voice1 = 1.15 : voice2 = 1.2 <WalterOS2> Looks like Peter broke something. :-) <KenKrchnr> Could be, it's worth a try. <WalterOS2> Ken: In the meantime, try "back-version"ing the ftp server on voice2, and we'll see what happens. <KenKrchnr> I'll try that later today or tomorrow. <WalterOS2> thx <crimso> I'm currently doing a stress test. Copying files seems to work fine. <WalterOS2> Send me an email when it's done, and I'll try uploading again. <WalterOS2> Christian should also test it as well, so maybe you could bounce the email to him as well. <crimso> OK, deleting a directory worked, too. There definitely has been some kind of improvement. <crimso> directory = directory tree <WalterOS2> Christian: which system were you testing on? <WarpedOS2> Walter...what about enhancing Voice membership to give it some worth? <WarpedOS2> for some a reason to renew... worth=Value <WalterOS2> What did you have in mind? <WalterOS2> Let's move on to item B3. <WarpedOS2> Well...at the moment we have Norman Virus Control at a reduced price, and some free software from a developer or two...is that something more we can do? <WalterOS2> Jeremy has now resigned as Liaison Officer. :-( <WalterOS2> Jeremy: Do you still want to do that? <WarpedOS2> yes...Walter I seen that...talked to him too... <WalterOS2> I've asked Roderick to take on that role, at least temporarily. <WalterOS2> He's still thinking about it. <g> <eCSNL> I have been thinking about it <eCSNL> as well <eCSNL> and I accept the position <WalterOS2> Thanks, eCSNL. <eCSNL> I think I can get some interesting people for an IRC meeting... <WalterOS2> Super!! <eCSNL> Especialy some developers that are working on some hot stuff <WalterOS2> We've found in the past that the "SpeakUps" as we call them, really make a big improvement in interest in VOICE. <WalterOS2> Please keep me/us informed. <WalterOS2> Any comments on that before we move on? <WalterOS2> OK, let's move on to B4: Christian (aka crimso) is now officially Editor-in-Chief of the Newsletter. <WalterOS2> So far he's doing a great job! <WalterOS2> B4a. Spanish Translation <WalterOS2> Christian, have any more people shown an interest in this? <WalterOS2> Boy! That was quick. <WalterOS2> Item B5: By-law change recommentation <WalterOS2> I would like to recommend a change in our by-laws so that the "chief honcho" of any of the VOICE operations be an ex-officio member of the Board of Directors. <WalterOS2> At present that would include Co-ordinator of WarpDoctor, Editor-in-Chief of the Newsletter, and possibly the President of Warpstock. <WalterOS2> I know the board has to deal this before the membership votes on it, <WalterOS2> but I would still like to get everyone's opinion. <WalterOS2> The reason for my recommendation is to improve communication between the VOICE operations/projects. <Rat-Salad> Warpstock, has nothing to do with VOICE <wdl> Increasing the size of a governing board, in a relatively small group, increases the risk of "legislative" grid-lock. IMHO. <WalterOS2> Jeremy: That was why I said "possibly" <WalterOS2> :-) <Rat-Salad> hee <crimso> Sorry guys, my connection broke and I couldn't re-connect. <crimso> Did anything important happen? <WalterOS2> I'll restate my recommendation for Christian's benefit. <crimso> Thanks. <WalterOS2> Item B5: By-law change recommentation <WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> I would like to recommend a change in our by-laws so that the "chief honcho" of any of the VOICE <WalterOS2> operations be an ex-officio member of the Board of Directors. <WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> At present that would include Co-ordinator of WarpDoctor, Editor-in-Chief of the Newsletter, and <WalterOS2> possibly the President of Warpstock. <WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> I know the board has to deal this before the membership votes on it, <WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> but I would still like to get everyone's opinion. <WalterOS2> <Wal <crimso> Well, since VOICE being a member-directed organization has always been emphasized, I don't know what our members are going to think of adding a non-elected person to the board. <WalterOS2> Then, Jeremy said that Warpstock has nothing to do with VOICE. <crimso> WalterOS2: I think that is indeed a different pair of shoes. <WalterOS2> Sorry about that. <WalterOS2> I gather it's not very popular. :-( <WalterOS2> it's==my recommendation <WalterOS2> Oh well, that's all right. <crimso> I'm not sure if it would have the desired effect. <WalterOS2> Why do you say that? <crimso> But then we cannot be sure until we tried. <Rat-Salad> I don't believe it's a good idea personally <crimso> Well, IIRC you suggested it to improve communication between different VOICE parts. <crimso> In my case it probably won't change a thing. The problem for me mainly is that I often don't have the time to join the IRC sessions. <crimso> But I'm on the admin mailing list now. <crimso> If things are also discussed there, that should be sufficient. <Rat-Salad> how about merely requiring those positions to attend the meetings.. that's what this is about right? tight communications, etc? <wdl> The treasurer is required, eh? <KenKrchnr> Requiring = asking ;-) <WalterOS2> I tried that before, except with the BOD members, and that went over like a lead balloon. <WalterOS2> wdl: right <crimso> Well, being able to have an important part in decision making might make attending the sessions more attractive to some. <WalterOS2> I'm concerned that important issues discussed will be missed by VOICE members if there not here. <wdl> Then one must make VOICE mored obviously relevant to "the community"?? <crimso> What about publishing the agenda in the announcement mails? Many people are just too lazy to click on the link and read the page. <WalterOS2> But, Christian, you don't have a vote at Board meetings, and I wouldn't either except that I'm president of VOICE. <WalterOS2> I think that's a poor way to run things, because the VNL and Warpdoctor are so important to VOICE. <crimso> WalterOS2: Oh, then I misunderstood your proposal. So you mean that the potential ex-officio officers get a vote? <Rat-Salad> that is a good point... the VNL is important... it's what VOICE is probably best known for <crimso> don't get a vote <WalterOS2> Christian: I was publishing the agenda, but we couldn't settle on a format that could be read by all email clients. <WalterOS2> Christian: Yes. <Rat-Salad> what's wrong with plain text? <crimso> WalterOS2: So the only change would be that they get the right to attend board meetings. <WalterOS2> The agenda now is in HTML format, and when converting it to plain text the formatting is lost. <WalterOS2> The result is pretty awful to look at. <WalterOS2> Christian: Basically yes. <wdl> Compose in plain text, for email distribution. Then convert to HTML for posting on the web. <crimso> Did you try to save the HTML as text with Mozilla? That works pretty good, usually. <crimso> WalterOS2: Then I don't see any problem with your proposal. I would second it. <WalterOS2> The by-laws are very strict in stating that certain important items have to go before the board. <Rat-Salad> Save Page As... then change the type to text <WalterOS2> wdl, Rat-Salad: The result is pretty awful, as I mentioned. <Rat-Salad> I actually prefer copy and paste :) <WalterOS2> RS: Doesn't work with HTML documents. <Rat-Salad> ? <WarpedOS2> copy, paste works for me <crimso> WalterOS2: I just tried using Mozilla 1.6b. The output didn't look that bad. <WalterOS2> Christian: I could give that a try, I supposed. <WalterOS2> Except that I'm using v1.5. <WalterOS2> I ran into too many problems with 1.6x. <WalterOS2> Anyway, it's getting late. <WalterOS2> We can continue this at the next meeting. <WalterOS2> The rest of the items do really need to be discussed, because we've already looked at them. <WalterOS2> :-) <Rat-Salad> I hope I can be at next meeting <WalterOS2> Does anyone have any comments or discussion. <eCSNL> I saw <eCSNL> the russian translation <eCSNL> thats next ? <crimso> Regarding what exactly? <KenKrchnr> FTP Server is backleveled to 1.15 for testing :-) <WalterOS2> Christian: Anything on the agenda. <eCSNL> Other Business 1. Russian translation of the VNL. <crimso> Well, I can report on the Spanish issue. <WalterOS2> Christian: OK, please go ahead. <crimso> OK, on December 4th a guy from Spain called Javier L. Oregarena E. contacted me. <WalterOS2> eCSNL: We can't look at a Russian and Spanish translation at the same time. <WalterOS2> Before you came, we found out that a Spanish translation may be in the works. <WarpedOS2> Ken - I have 1.20 running without any problems that described..and using assorted ftp programs, even those from the makers of dream weaver <crimso> He was interested in doing a translation to Spanish and asked me about it. <WarpedOS2> the integrated ftp program in Dreamweaver works just fine <WalterOS2> Let's let Christian give his report. :-) <crimso> We exchanged a few e-mails and it turned out that he apparently thought that doing it was easier than it is. <WalterOS2> hehe <crimso> He said something about gathering about four persons. <crimso> I told him that to keep the thing going, he would need at least double the number. <crimso> Or the guys would burn out soon. <crimso> I'm afraid I may have been a bit too pessimistic in my suggestions. <crimso> I invited him to this chat a few days ago. <WalterOS2> 8 people as a minimum does seem a little high. <crimso> Basically, I haven't heard from him since December 10. <WalterOS2> OK, well contact him again in the next couple of weeks, and see if he's still interested. <crimso> WalterOS2: You always have to consider that not everyone is going to work on each issue, even if they wanted to. Murphy is always on the loose. <WalterOS2> True. :-) <wdl> Start with whoever you can get. Publish it. If burn-out is a problem, ask for more translators. <wdl> If people read it, and want it, mopre will come. <WalterOS2> I tend to agree with Bill. <wdl> "Mopre" = "more" <crimso> We've been working on the German issue with as few as three people sometimes. But that nearly resulted in the whole thing collapsing. <crimso> wdl: Sadly, I don't think so. <crimso> Some may volunteer, fewer actually do something, and even fewer will do so on a regular basis. <wdl> Crimso: But it's the way to start. If it collapses, well... <wdl> If one doesn't start, it *never* flies... <crimso> wdl: I agree. If we don't try, it won't happen anway. <WalterOS2> The problem is that the people who read it may not have the necessary bilingual languate skills and the time. <wdl> But *some* may!! Ya gotta try. <crimso> Co-ordinating three versions is going to be rough. <wdl> Again, ya gotta try. Else VOICE becomes less and less relevant. <WalterOS2> We should also remember that there are Spanish-speaking all over the world: Spain, Mexico, and most of South America. <crimso> We may have to postpone the publishing date for each Spanish issue. Or set the deadline for each issue a good deal earlier. <crimso> WalterOS2: That's the reason why I would really like to have a Spanish issue. <wdl> Publishing language versions sequentually isn't a bad thing. If it has to be, well, it has to be. <crimso> BTW, what about the Russian one? I haven't heard anything about it yet. <wdl> "sequ..." + (the right way) ;-) <WalterOS2> You weren't at the last meeting. :-) <WalterOS2> It was an idea of mine, but no work has been done on it. <crimso> Has anybody from over there expressed their interest? <WalterOS2> I just know there's a heck of a lot of OS/2 work being done in Russia, and there are also bilingual people involved. <WalterOS2> No. That's why I think we should try to kick-start the Spanish version first. <WalterOS2> Because there has been a request for it. <crimso> Same for other parts of Asia. We only get a glimpse of what's being done there. Especially Japan. <WalterOS2> I don't even want to think of a Japanese (or Chinese) version. <WalterOS2> Those languages scare to me to death. <WalterOS2> :-) <crimso> That would be complicated. <wdl> Time for re-organization? Renewed focus?? <crimso> I mean doing a Japanese version. Not scaring you to death. <crimso> :-) <WalterOS2> :-) <WalterOS2> Well, I think we should at least look into the Spanish one first. <crimso> OK, I'll try to contact that guy again. <WarpedOS2> If we broaden our audience...we will broaden our membership! <WalterOS2> Let's send out email to all the OS/2 groups we can think of where Spanish is spoken. <WalterOS2> Ask for bilingual people who would help out with Spanish version. <WalterOS2> Christian: Thanks! <WalterOS2> Well, I need to leave: my body is seizing up from being in this chair so long. :-) <WalterOS2> Would someone like to move we adjourn, please? <WalterOS2> As I always say, You are welcome to stay and discuss things informally after we adjourn. <wdl> Move to adjourn. <WalterOS2> Thanks. <WalterOS2> All in favour of adjouning, please type Aye. <WarpedOS2> Aye <wdl> Aye. <eCSNL> aye <KenKrchnr> Aye <crimso> Aye. <WarpedOS2> See ya Walter...take care <crimso> Arrr! 14:32:12 <WalterOS2> Motion is passed. Meeting adjourned.