| <Swanee> | Welcome to the Voice channel... As you all know we are here to discuss and learn about life with, and hopefully not without Rexx.
|
| <TimurTabi> | well, I'm not running it on an SMP box either
|
| * | MADodel has 2 SMP boxes and no WSA.
|
| <Chip> | I'm in the same boat as Dirk.
|
| <TimurTabi> | I was just wondering if anyone's ever seen a situation where the EA data is out of sync with the .CMD file, but OS/2 can't fix it.
|
| <Swanee> | We are happy to have Dirk Terrell from Falcon Networking (recent changes, maybe BMT now?)
|
| <MADodel> | But Aurora runs just peachey
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| <Chip> | Hi John! Good to hear from you.
|
| <Swanee> | And... Chip Davis the President of RexxLA
|
| <jjurban> | Hello all, REXX RULES!
|
| <mandie> | John!!! hi :)
|
| <Swanee> | And finally a guy that I'm sure no one has heard of...
|
| <Swanee> | Mike Cowlishaw, The creator of the Rexx family of languages
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Who? :-)
|
| <mfc> | AKA mfc :-)
|
| <mandie> | that "Father" fellow :)
|
| <MADodel> | Is this the Visual C++ meeting?
|
| <Chip> | You know, the "fred" in TRL... ;-)
|
| <Death_Syn> | oh boy, there goes my monitor..
|
| <Swanee> | We'd like to have an orderly meeting so we would ask that you try to ask you "preprepared" question when there is a possible lull
|
| <Chip> | was it something I said?
|
| <jjurban> | FYI, Object REXX runs OK on Aurora beta.
|
| <Swanee> | Hopefully we can get to all of them. If need be we will moderate to slow the flow of text so Dirk, Chip and Mike can keep up.
|
| <Swanee> | Thanks and now I will open the floor. :)
|
| <Ed> | Mike, what is your favored rexx flavor? why? what is it missing?
|
| <mfc> | Rexx flavour, that is?
|
| <Ed> | yes
|
| <mfc> | Probably NetRexx at the moment .. as it has various bits I always wanted
|
| <mfc> | to put into 'classic' Rexx but couldn't.
|
| <mandie> | !ask netrexx
|
| <VoiceBot> | [netrexx] NetRexx - http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/netrexx (mandie)
|
| <mfc> | I especially like line comments (--) .. now in Orexx too.
|
| <mandie> | !ask or
|
| <VoiceBot> | [or] Not found.
|
| <CWBrenn> | Can you suggest a book that's a good beginners REXX book that covers all the new flavors of REXX out there? (anyone)
|
| <trixer> | mfc, is it possible to have rexx 'talk' to a sql server running on a different OS?
|
| <trixer> | kinda like perl?
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| <Longstaff> | trixer - that sounds like an odbc issue
|
| <mfc> | Well NetRexx certainly can, via JDBC. Haven't used SQL myself..
|
| <Ed> | there is a sample of code to do just that in njPipes
|
| <rexxer> | Question: Now that IBM's indifferent about OS/2 aren't Classic and Object Rexx 'endangered species'?
|
| <Chip> | Doesn't Mark Hessling have something to do that?
|
| <trixer> | I was talking about opening a socket via tcp and talking on port 5432 or something. I never did learn rxsocket or whatever its called
|
| <Xavi> | Question #2: is there any new development for classic rexx?
|
| <mfc> | Endangered? Not at all -- my web site traffic is going up all the time.
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| <Swanee> | trixer: I believe there are external dll's that allow you to talk to sql depending on what platform you are on.
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| <Dirk_Terr> | Rexx is not OS/2 specific by any means.
|
| <mfc> | Also (after a low ;point in 1995) my Rexx book sales are increasing every 6 months :-)
|
| <GLEB> | mfc> Hello! What do you think about another ports, such as Regina, for example
|
| <jjurban> | Our book sales are doink OK too.
|
| <TimurTabi> | Here's my question rephrased: Can you talk about the mechanism where OS/2 stores the pre-compiled REXX script in the EA's, and what it would take for OS/2 to no longer be able to tell when the EA data is old?
|
| <mfc> | Ports: I've been impressed how true to the books they all are.
|
| <jjurban> | 'doing' I meant to say.
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| <Chip> | "endangered": I'm using Rexx on AIX in a large Y2K project. I'm writing more of it than ever.
|
| <Death_Syn> | where can I get info about these REXX books? I've not seen them...
|
| <rexxer> | are people writing in classic and object rexx for non-IBM platforms (besides Chip and me)
|
| <mfc> | Books info: check out the Rexx web site
|
| <mfc> | www2.hursley.ibm.com/rexx
|
| <rexxer> | I feel quite lonely you know
|
| <mfc> | there's a books list linked on the front page.
|
| <mfc> | Object Rexx for Win32 is selling rather well, I'm told...
|
| <Chip> | Are you RexxLA member, rexxer? :-)
|
| <rexxer> | Chip, no just an ordinary rexx programmer (and fan)
|
| <Chip> | If not, I can fix that _real_ easy!
|
| <mfc> | [I should have said 'my' Rexx site .. RexxLA is probably 'the' Rexx site, nowadays! :-)
|
| <jjurban> | Sign him up Chip!
|
| <MADvirc> | here use my line Sign here: ____________________________
|
| <Chip> | That's kind of you Mike, but yours (like your book) is definitive.
|
| <mandie> | !ask rexxla
|
| <VoiceBot> | [rexxla] Not found.
|
| <mandie> | hmm
|
| <Chip> | It's www.rexxla.org
|
| <rexxer> | Madvirk R e x x e r, there you go :-)
|
| <Projects> | !op
|
| <mfc> | Let me ask a question, then ..
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Can you tell us a bit about future plans for NetRexx? Is it true that there may be a VisualNetRexx in it's future?
|
| <mfc> | What would people most like added to [whichever flavour of] Rexx?
|
| <Swanee> | Oops... VisualAge for NetRexx
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| <rexxer> | keep the languages simple, mfc!!
|
| * | TimurTabi wonders why his question is being ignored
|
| <mfc> | Future plans: just got back from an IBM meeting in Austin which confirmed my proposals for IBM's scripting
|
| <Swanee> | BootDrive for Classic Rexx
|
| <Chip> | bootdrive is available via an environ. var. isn't it?
|
| <mfc> | strategy .. you may rest assured that [Net and Object] Rexx are in there...
|
| <Xavi> | Will NetRexx be included on Warp 5?
|
| <mandie> | assuming there will be a Warp 5 :)
|
| <MADvirc> | psha mandie
|
| <Xavi> | (like it is included in OS/390?)
|
| <mfc> | Though as usual can't speculate on specific product plans (sorry)
|
| <Arkay> | gotta stay positive, mandie :-)
|
| <MADvirc> | We'll see Warp 5 long before there is a winDOS2000
|
| <mandie> | Arkay: Oh, I certainly am :)
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: Not an api though, it's a search and destroy mission possible via several different means but no absolute way
|
| <mfc> | NetRexx is free from website, so not really needed to be in Warp .. you can get most uptodate from website
|
| <Ed> | more netrexx tools, ie a faster compiler and maybe an interpeted version
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Understood.
|
| <mfc> | and it's easy to install.
|
| <jjurban> | Mike, I'd like to see a 'Sorted Directory' class in Object REXX.
|
| <jjurban> | So a do obj over mySortedDir returns in object order.
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| <Swanee> | jjurban: Make that for "Classic" too and you've got a deal
|
| <JimLarson> | C o u l d w e t a k e a b r e a t h a n d g e t T i m u r ' s Q. a n s w e r e d.
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| <mfc> | sorted dir: for ORexx additions, best to go direct to developers (mailto:rexxhelp@vnet.ibm.com)
|
| <Chip> | Sorting is a weak area in general, but I'm not sure it belongs _in_ the language.
|
| <Ed> | something like VM's pipes are much better suited to sorting/selecting etc
|
| <mandie> | Timur: would you repeat your question plz
|
| <TimurTabi> | Here's my question rephrased: Can you talk about the mechanism where OS/2 stores the pre-compiled REXX script in the EA's, and what it would take for OS/2 to no longer be able to tell when the EA data is old?
|
| <jjurban> | What was Timur's question, I forgot.
|
| <Chip> | And I can't wait to have the time to play with Ed Tomlinson's NJPipes.
|
| <mfc> | I missed it forst time, sorry. As to the mechanism, I'm afraid I've
|
| <mfc> | never seen the OS/2 Rexx implementation code, so I don't know the details of that particular mechanism.
|
| <rexxer> | I never had Timur's problem though I use HPFS386 (through Warp Connect)
|
| <jjurban> | For Object REXX - loops - I'd like to see some kind of optimization where it doesn't have to interpret all the statements each time through the loop.
|
| <mfc> | As far as I recall, it's just a straight file timestamp comparison .. but HP386 SMP problems ring a bell.
|
| <jjurban> | Timur, if the code is > 64K, I think it doesn't store it.
|
| <mfc> | Check for service packs/fixes on the OS/2 website?
|
| <TimurTabi> | it's only about 10 lines of Rexx code
|
| <TimurTabi> | I'm running FP35
|
| <TimurTabi> | I'll try a later FP, and I'll also try Object Rexx
|
| <jjurban> | Also, it re-tokenizes if the source file date/time changes, I think.
|
| <mfc> | Yes it should do (rre-tok if time changes)
|
| <Swanee> | TimurTabi: Did you try stripping the ea's and rerunning the script? (I'm not sure exactly what this is about)
|
| <TimurTabi> | swanee: I have to strip the EA's TWICE before it recognizes it
|
| <TimurTabi> | even though the first time, there are no EA's
|
| <TimurTabi> | after the first time, I should say
|
| <_biz_> | holy cow
|
| <TimurTabi> | it's totally bizarre
|
| <Swanee> | Really? I'd like to see it if you would care to send it.
|
| <SunnyBear> | hi biz... told ya... :)
|
| <TimurTabi> | well, there's nothing to send, really
|
| <_biz_> | heheh
|
| <TimurTabi> | it just acts that way on my WS box
|
| <_biz_> | wow
|
| <TimurTabi> | it happens with all of my rexx scripts
|
| <Swanee> | OH, like any cmd file does it?
|
| <TimurTabi> | well, I've only written a couple
|
| <Swanee> | OK, that *is* weird :)
|
| <Ed> | timur, I found OS/2 to be much more stable after a reinstall.
|
| <TimurTabi> | some seem to be more susceptible than others
|
| <WarpGuru> | jjurban: you are correct because the max size for EAs is 64KB
|
| <TimurTabi> | ed: this is a fresh install
|
| <Ed> | that makes it doubly frustrating...
|
| <rexxer> | Timur: does that happen in plain HPFS?
|
| <TimurTabi> | now that I know how to "fix" it, it's not that big of a deal
|
| <TimurTabi> | rexxer: it only happens on my one machine
|
| <TimurTabi> | my other OS/2 boxes don't have this problem
|
| <freiheit> | Run CHKDSK recently? :)
|
| <Chip> | Is it also your only multi-processor box?
|
| * | GLEB has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
|
| <Death_Syn> | Chip: its not multi-processor, he said it only runs SMP version
|
| <TimurTabi> | well, it's WSA SMP but it only has one CPU
|
| <Chip> | Question: Mike, has Sun shown any interest in NetRexx as an "official" part of the distribution?
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Is classic rexx still being tweaked or has it pretty much been set in stone and your work is on OB and NetRexx now?
|
| <Ed> | Great question Chip!
|
| <Swanee> | Do chip's first Mike
|
| <mfc> | No, James Gosling thinks it's "cool" (actually his highest form of praise :-) .. but we haven't suggested that Sun ship it.
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: Has Microsoft ever wanted to license Rexx from IBM?
|
| <mfc> | We keep thinking of adding it to IBM JDKs, but most people seem to prefer to download it from web.
|
| <Ed> | PLEASE do suggest it Mike. In my eyes the biggest weekness of REXX is unix people *usually* do not know about it.
|
| <Chip> | I don't want to use the term "preload" here, but...
|
| <mfc> | Unix people: that's changing. Object Rexx for Linux, for example.
|
| <rexxer> | Ed that's right: perl is ugly
|
| <MADvirc> | suggestion: have them add a URL object to Warp 5 to do a download like they did for Netscape/2
|
| <mfc> | Swanee: Classic Rexx is pretty much set in stone now, since ORexx is a superset.
|
| <Chip> | and it's a Standard.
|
| <mfc> | Jim: Yes, MS are quite keen on Rexx these days :-)
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Most work is with NetRexx now or is ORexx still developing
|
| <jjurban> | MS are keen on which REXX?
|
| <mfc> | [probably 'cos they want to try to get into the enterprise business, and customers there demand Rexx)
|
| <Chip> | There are big enough smilies to make that MS comment fly...
|
| <CWBrenn> | So is it now possible to run Classic Rexx scripts and apps with ORexx? (I seem to recall it being necessary to switch between one and the other in some situations).
|
| <scoff> | Ed: I usually use rexx in os/2 but at work I wanted to run rexx in solaris, a big distraction for me in unix is that using regina is just really different, you have to sort of point the .cmd file to regina, it's weird, I'd rather unix rexx were more like os/2's
|
| <mfc> | Object REXX has an offical IBM development group working on it. NetRexx is (until a couple of weeks ago) just me.
|
| <MADvirc> | I'm sure M$ can make alot of useful improvements to REXX so that it only runs on windows
|
| <rexxer> | question: Shouldn't NetRexx and OBject rexx have converged in notation (like ~ and .)
|
| <jjurban> | We sold 4 copies of our 'Oz' program on Friday - massive vertical app writtem 100% Object REXX + DB2 + VTD.
|
| <Ed> | what is the news on netrexx mike?
|
| <Chip> | Switching Rexx on OS/2 was in order to get ORexx in the first place.
|
| <Ed> | are you keeping control of the project?
|
| <mfc> | MS Rexx .. not sure they know the differences between the flavours .. more want the check box ticked off.
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Just like MS :-)
|
| <CWBrenn> | Chip: yes, but it was my understanding that this was because ORexx would not run some "classic" REXX scripts/apps in some situations.
|
| <mfc> | ORexx & NetRexx .. ORexx design point was to be upwards compatible with classic Rexx
|
| <mfc> | NetRexx design point was to be a first-class programming language for Java VM
|
| <mfc> | Java mandates the object model, different from ORexx, hence language had to be different.
|
| <mfc> | Once different, I was free to tweak syntax etc. for best results.
|
| <Chip> | ORexx won't let you get by with having an error in a section of code that's never encountered. The OS/2 install script had such a situation, so they had to come up in Classic mode.
|
| * | Swanee still uses Classic Rexx to be "all things to all people"
|
| <mfc> | Ed: NetRexx is firmly part of IBM strategy now (as is ORexx) .. but yes, I still am 'in charge' of language design.
|
| <mfc> | I expect there to be other implementations.
|
| * | rexxer uses classic rexx as well - to be compatible with Regina
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: since Rexx is basically platform independent, can we have a RexxScript implementation similar to JavaScript?
|
| <Chip> | Question for everyone: What operating system/platform does NOT have Rexx available?
|
| <Xavi> | Macintosh?
|
| * | TimurTabi would love Rexx for his Mac
|
| <JimLarson> | Chip: VS1
|
| <Chip> | I was under the impression there was a Mac Rexx
|
| <scoff> | probably QNX doesn't...?
|
| <rexxer> | Nokia Communicator (joking)
|
| <CWBrenn> | Amiga?
|
| <mfc> | Similar to JavaScript? For my sins, I'm Project Editor of the JavaScript standard (ECMAScript) .. not at all sure
|
| <Toasty-X> | so is there a port for Windows 95?
|
| <mfc> | I would like Rexx to be like that... :-)
|
| <Chip> | VS1: right, and I don't think the IBM1620 had one either... :-)
|
| <rexxer> | Qnx can use regina or rexx/imc probably
|
| <Chip> | Nokia: (just wait)
|
| <imc> | Jose Aguirre wrote one for the mac but I've no idea how good it is
|
| <mfc> | Nokia: I can run NetRexx programs on my Palm Pilot (IBM Workpad)
|
| <Chip> | Amiga: it was _the_ system language.
|
| <CWBrenn> | Oh.
|
| <mfc> | Win95: yes, get IBM Object REXX for Windows :-)
|
| <rexxer> | Regina runs on Windows and its free (but not o-o)
|
| <Chip> | Okay, I'll bite, "QNX"?
|
| <rexxer> | does BeOS have a rexx implementation (not NetRexx)
|
| <rexxer> | Qnx can use regina or rexx/imc probably
|
| <jjurban> | QNX is a real time OS, isn't it?
|
| <Toasty-X> | is RxSock available for IBM Object REXX for Windows?
|
| <MADvirc> | QNX is mostly for embedded systems
|
| <freiheit> | QNX, incredibly efficiently-coded UNIX (the demo boots into GUI with a JavaScript capable web browser from a 1.44MB floppy disk)
|
| <jjurban> | QNX is for process control systems, I think.
|
| <freiheit> | It's also the basis for the forthcoming new AmigaOS release.
|
| <mfc> | RxSock .. Yes I think so. I know it has all the usual OS/2 stuff (RxFTP, RexxUtil, etc.)
|
| <Chip> | BEOS: a good candidate. If anyone knows of someone working on a Rexx port, let me know.
|
| <Ed> | Am I the only one that *really* misses pipes in non VM REXXes?
|
| <mfc> | RxSock .. just looked on my laptop .. yes, it's there.
|
| <rexxer> | We need more Rexx extensions like perl has, rather than more platforms IMO
|
| <rexxer> | like a CGI module everyone agrees upon...
|
| <mfc> | extensions: well with NetRexx you have total access to anything in Java .. no need for language-specific extensions
|
| <Chip> | Hardly, Ed. I run into ex-plumbers all the time.
|
| <CWBrenn> | If someone wanted to use REXX as a CGI language what would be the best version of REXX (Classic, ORexx, NetRex) to use, and what limitations would it have w/regards to cross platform use?
|
| <CWBrenn> | (i.e., if you wanted it to run on Warp and Unix servers, what _shouldn't_ you do?)
|
| <mfc> | (and the same binaries for the compiler run on any Java VM .. is there a JVM for BeOS?)
|
| <freiheit> | mfc, not yet but they're working on one.
|
| <freiheit> | (according to their website)
|
| <rexxer> | I use rexx/imc in Linux for apache CGI scripts.
|
| <mfc> | CGI: classic probably is slightly faster, though ORexx works fine.
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Well, I use Classic and Object Rexx on our Linux web server and the OS/2 server.
|
| <Chip> | rexxer: have to looked at the free IBM ORexx for Linux?
|
| <rexxer> | Chip: yes. Definitely is better. Rexx/imc is what I started using and I keep it while it isn't broken.
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | You do still have to have some non-portable code though.
|
| <CWBrenn> | How much? I mean, how easy is it to port from one to the other?
|
| <jjurban> | Another request for Object REXX - I'd like to be able to switch the Mike on and off in VTD - I can't figure out how to do that with O Rexx.
|
| <rexxer> | BTW, mike: I love GoServe. It's great for Rexx-based Web programming
|
| <Chip> | Question for all: What is the impediment to using NetRexx.
|
| <mfc> | switching the Mike on and off sound terrible, to me :-)
|
| <Chip> | ?
|
| <JimLarson> | Chip: documentation
|
| <mfc> | rexxer: thnx
|
| <jjurban> | For me, NetRexx is not automatically speech-aware, ie. Java isn't.
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Not much, mainly getting environment variables and deleting files, etc.
|
| <Arkay> | Chip: I don't know Rexx :-)
|
| <mfc> | jimL .. what don't you like about NetRexx docs?
|
| <jjurban> | Unlike SOM objects, Java button captions, entry fields, are not auto speech-enabled.
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: He would dream of switching you off I wouldn't think. :)
|
| <rexxer> | impediment: It is a *compiled* language & it's java. 1000s of API calls. Not just for quick coding.
|
| <Chip> | rexxer: good points.
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: I can't find any. Please port it to VM so I can order 3 inch thick manuals.
|
| <mfc> | actually it's designed to be interpreted .. just happened to write compiler (translator) first ...
|
| <CWBrenn> | Can't you compile "regular" REXX as well?
|
| <Chip> | ...but it obviates a lot of the portability problems (not all, of course)
|
| <Ed> | maybe an interpreter could be this year's project mike?
|
| <mfc> | JimL .. check out my website .. plenty of docs (even a tutorial) there
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: you mean NetRexx has an INTERPRET statement?
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: I might take a moment to say that while html docs are ok, the OS/2 inf format is quicker, smaller and has a great search engine. (even though it has other disadvantages)
|
| * | Toasty-X is away: (Autoaway after 10m) [Pager off]
|
| * | Projects ^5's Swanee
|
| <jjurban> | agree with Swanee on OS/2 inf vs html.
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: Please port it to VM so I can order 3 inch thick manuals.
|
| <mfc> | interpreter: in fact the translator is structured internally as an interpreter... probably only a few weeks work to build interpreter.
|
| <CWBrenn> | Swanee: yeah, like a relatively useless UI :-)
|
| <Ed> | netrexx is already ported to VM Jim...
|
| <mfc> | swanee: I provide HTML and PDF .. PDF is very similar to INF
|
| <rexxer> | I think people are using NetRexx as a scripting language in Windows
|
| <Swanee> | CWBrenn: We really need to be able to copy selected text (my major problem with inf)
|
| <mfc> | Do need the docs to be cross paltform, too...
|
| <mfc> | :-) Not only is it ported to VM, but it ships with VM (part of the OS)
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Yeah, I realize that also. Maybe one of us can take it upon ourselves to convert them to inf for OS/2 users.
|
| <Swordedge> | the biggest problem with INF for rexx doc is lack of portability which html and PDF provide
|
| <Ed> | that interpreter would, IMHO, really help netrexx to grow quickly
|
| <Swanee> | Swordedge: Noted
|
| <Chip> | ...even without INTERPRET.
|
| <MADvirc> | How about writing an INF viewer in REXX?
|
| <rexxer> | HTML is just fine. the browser can load a page faster than I can read it :)
|
| <mfc> | swanee: the source is marked um in GML (not SGML), so INF would be pretty easy to do.
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: Good. I have a P390 with ESA 2.3, but I don't recall seeing any doc on NetRexx. I ordered the complete set of hard copy documentation, I will check again on Monday.
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Hmmm... we'll have to look into that. :)
|
| <Ed> | actually if mike made an interpreter you could just use it to call itself and so you would have an interpret...
|
| <Swanee> | MADvirc: There is a guy trying to write an inf viewer that will allow "copy selected"
|
| <mfc> | VM: There's also a new RedBook on using Java and NetRexx on VM
|
| <Ed> | the redbook is good and explains how to use java/netrexx without needing the posix shell.
|
| <Chip> | May I take a moment to make two small plugs?
|
| <mfc> | INTERPRET: it's there in the design, not implemented or doc'd tho :-)
|
| <JimLarson> | great!
|
| <Chip> | SHARE in SanFrancisco in Feb. will have a lot of Rexx, ORexx, and NetRexx talks on a lot of platforms.
|
| <Ed> | imagine that INTERPRET would be very slow now...
|
| <Chip> | The Rexx Symposium in Jacksonville, Fl in May will be ALL-Rexx, for 3 days.
|
| <Chip> | Thank you, and we return you to our program...
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: I should be considering the symposium
|
| <Swanee> | Perhaps not a deep and meaningful question but... Do you ever sit back in your patio chair with a glass of... well... lemonade and stare at the sky wondering how you got to this point. I mean it has to be pretty satisfying to look back at your accomplishments.
|
| <Chip> | See www.share.org and www.rexxla.org (respectively) for further details.
|
| <Swanee> | Not that you're getting old... :)
|
| <mandie> | ahem
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | I guess that question is for mfc :-)
|
| <mandie> | lol
|
| <Chip> | Yes, Swanee, I do that all the time... it's amazing you know, when I was young...
|
| <Swanee> | hehe, yeah, I should have prefaced
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: LOL!!
|
| <mfc> | If directed at me, the answer is no: never lemonade :-)
|
| <Swanee> | hehe, dark?
|
| <Arkay> | beer?
|
| <mandie> | warm
|
| <Chip> | .. and that assumes he has the time to loll on his patio.
|
| <mfc> | more likely a Pinot Noir or Rioja...
|
| <Ed> | beer is good stuff. promised Mike one once after he fixed a netrexx bug one saturday.
|
| <mfc> | Beer is best in Pubs :-)
|
| <jjurban> | I think it's unanimous here - we all love REXX - lanuage for people, not computers - let's have a round of applause for Mike.
|
| <Arkay> | Ed: you'd better pay up.
|
| <Xavi> | mfc: good taste!
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| <Swanee> | mfc: I can't even pronounce them...
|
| * | rexxer likes Rioja too :))
|
| * | Arkay is giving a standing ovation!
|
| <scoff> | in classic rexx, what is required to assure that memory is freed? If I have a stem astem. is astem. = "" sufficient or do I need drop astem. ?
|
| <Ed> | will if Mike's travels ever take him to Montreal.
|
| <mandie> | Be is NOT an official Java licensee. We'd love to see a JVM running on the BeOS, but we have
|
| <mfc> | Xavi: my father was a wine merchant, so it's entirely his fault :-)
|
| <Chip> | Or you can join us in Jacksonville, Ed.
|
| <mandie> | oops...sorry :(
|
| * | Swanee just passed on a trip to England in March
|
| <Xavi> | mfc: as a Spanish, thanks for your comments to Rioja.
|
| * | Arkay thinks Swanee is crazy
|
| * | Longstaff would love to see the home counties again
|
| <mandie> | Arkay: good judge of character you are :)
|
| <JimLarson> | I just want to say that Rexx is the brilliance that IBM can be. So was VM. So could've been OS/2, but alas. Anyway, thanks, mfc.
|
| <mfc> | Drop: the assignment will do it.
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| <Swanee> | Arkay: I didn't know if I could pay the bills whewn I got back
|
| <Arkay> | Swanee: Why worry about tomorrow? :-)
|
| <mfc> | Drop: one nice thing about Classic Rexx is that there's no aliasing, so there's not need for a garbage collector
|
| <mfc> | all storage is immediately recoverable when it becomes unused.
|
| <mfc> | m thanks, Jim.
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| <Swanee> | mfc: Aliasing?
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| <Arkay> | I've got a question. This may have been asked before, but is there a possibility for a Visualage for Rexx?
|
| <mfc> | aliasing: more than one reference (name) for one piece of storage
|
| <mfc> | VARexx .. we were going to do one years ago, but VX/Rexx and VisPro Rexx cornered the market...
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | VA for NetRexx would be extremely welcome in these parts.
|
| <Chip> | ... and neither of them is currently being marketed (or supported AFAIK)
|
| <Swanee> | VX & VisPro: Nicely done too from my perspective
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | I used VX/Rexx quite a bit (still do) but it is dead. And the VA design is much better.
|
| <mfc> | VA for NR .. we're moving away from a different tool for each language .. expect to see more multi-language tools
|
| <Arkay> | mfc: But those haven't been updated in a while. Plus, as Dirk and others said, VA NetRexx would be great!
|
| <Xavi> | VisPro rexx is still marketed and supported.
|
| <Projects> | !op
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| <Swanee> | Chip: VisPro is but lightly
|
| <rexxer> | Xavi: yes and it doesn't necessarily need the runtime
|
| <WarpTEN> | I'd love a VANetRexx as well
|
| <jjurban> | VisPro is a great development tool. I love it.
|
| <Chip> | Well, the author has moved on to other projects, and Rexx is fairly low on his list these days.
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Multi? As in Java based?
|
| <mfc> | Multi: as in JVM based
|
| <Longstaff> | i have a question about the C-REXX sample programs bundled with va c++ 3.0. where can i find instructions about integrating rexx into a c++ wrapper?
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | The VisualAge people know what "object-oriented" means. I just wish they wouldn't write the tools in Smalltalk. :-)
|
| <mfc> | C++ .. I beleive there's a pretty extensive set of samples
|
| <Ed> | a Visual Age product that supports many langs would be nice espically if there were hooks so one could tell it about other langs...
|
| <mfc> | (samples in the Rexx tree somewhere)
|
| <Chip> | ... and as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg...
|
| <jjurban> | Another request for Orexx - I'd like to see a rexx-ified OpenGL.
|
| <Ed> | Yes. A liciense for GPL use would be nice.
|
| <Longstaff> | i've looked at length for any reference to rexx in va c++ help....i really need some guidance with this
|
| <Ed> | ie if you GPL the results the fee is much reduced.
|
| <CWBrenn> | A license for GPL use would be the GPL
|
| <mfc> | C++ .. check out the samples that come with Rexx
|
| <Xavi> | mfc: I am just curious. Can you describe us which kind of computers do you run on your daily work.
|
| <mfc> | computers: I have two fairly old (P167) dektops running OS/2 (one at the office, one in my study at home .. where I am now)
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Longstaff: Eric Guigerre put some code in the public domain to do it in C. I'm sure you could take that and wrap it in a C++ object. Email me and I
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | will see if I can di it up.
|
| <mfc> | .. and a ThinkPad 600 which I use when on trips (150 days, in 1998) runnin Win98. Makes a nice slave machine running acrobat distiller when I'm at home :-)
|
| <Death_Syn> | I use Aladdin Ghostscript for my distiller... works under OS/2 quite well with Rommel's printmon
|
| <Chip> | aren't slaves supposed to obey commands... :-)
|
| <Death_Syn> | also free
|
| <mfc> | Also still use VM (mostly for forums and SCRIPT) and an IBM Workpad (PalmPilot 2)
|
| <Swordedge> | Unfortunately, you have to run W98 for a distiller with decent compression..
|
| <Death_Syn> | Sword: yeah...
|
| <Death_Syn> | but I just gzip it anyway
|
| <Death_Syn> | very few documents exist on my sytem in a non-compressed form that cannot be read directly via script or other
|
| <Death_Syn> | all my locally stored html is gzipped, as is postscript and pdfs
|
| <Death_Syn> | REXX makes processing these easy :>
|
| <Death_Syn> | has anyone come up with a REXX interface for palmpilot?
|
| <mfc> | I keep getting requests to do a Rexx interpreter for the Pilot .. but my question is, what
|
| <mfc> | would one actually use it for?
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Longstaff: Look at the last entry here: http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/dev/rexx/vxtech/
|
| <Ed> | I have used njPipes (which generates netrexx code) many times to make adhock programs...
|
| <mfc> | I suppose macros for Palm Globe would be possible... :-)
|
| <jjurban> | Another request for Object Rexx - a 'Network' environment directory - like the 'global' environment, but across all stations on the network. I ain't asking for much, am I?
|
| <Death_Syn> | a rexx interpreter for the pilot would seem to be a bit large for use, to me
|
| <Chip> | Pilot: all I want is to be able to HotSync to OS/2 natively.
|
| <mfc> | Size: not necesarily -- my original Rexx interpreter (for S/370) was a smidge under 32K
|
| <Death_Syn> | mfc: wowie
|
| <mfc> | (I wanted it to fit in 8 pages, so on a paging drum it would be loaded in a single rotation... )
|
| <Chip> | oh, does that ever take me back!
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Weren't those fun days.. :-)
|
| <mfc> | that interpreter didn't have the I/O functions (LINES/CHARS etc.) .. another 8-10K perhaps.
|
| <mfc> | Ah them days .. just wish I'd had 1's ads well as 0's to work with like they have nowadays... :-)
|
| <Ed> | have you ever considered using a subset of pipes in place of LINES/CHARS etc?
|
| * | SunnyBear is back from the dead. Gone 3 hrs 31 min 37 secs
|
| <Swordedge> | Sounds a little like coding embedded systems in C... No printf since that library takes to much space.
|
| <mfc> | Pipes (you'll hate me for this) .. have never usde them .. they came along just after I moved from VM to OS/2 for most development
|
| <Chip> | The worst thing about Pipes is the name. Everyone thinks they know about pipes from Unix.
|
| <Death_Syn> | I need to see what it would take to convert something like TiK from tcl/tk to orexx...
|
| <jjurban> | Pipes? I smokes 'em all the time.
|
| <Death_Syn> | probably woudl be easier to write from scratch with tictoc docks
|
| <Death_Syn> | -k
|
| <Chip> | ... but you don't inhale...
|
| <rexxer> | So what are those pipes about (sorry)
|
| <Ed> | Think the pipe model for IO is amoung the most flexiable out there.
|
| <Swordedge> | jjurban: What do you smoke in them?
|
| <Death_Syn> | pipes are my saviour
|
| <Death_Syn> | just wish I knew how to talk to them over smb in linux
|
| <Death_Syn> | Ed: I agree
|
| <Ed> | Pipes smoke records in VM and objects in netrexx/java
|
| <Chip> | Question: what is the current state of play on the MS Windows Scripting Host re: Rexx?
|
| <Ed> | to the tune of 50K/sec in VM (9121) and 15K (njPipes 0.47 PII 266)
|
| <rexxer> | Ed can you point me to a URL about pipes?
|
| <Ed> | !ask njpipes
|
| <VoiceBot> | [njpipes] Not found.
|
| <Ed> | you can start at http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/njpipes.html
|
| <mfc> | Rexx for WSH: ask Christian Michel :-)
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: Shat do you see as the future of PC OSs? Will it be completely NT dominated, or is there a fighting chance that other competitors will survive?
|
| <Swordedge> | ftp://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/java/dev/njpipes.zip
|
| <JimLarson> | Shat = What
|
| <rexxer> | Thanks Ed
|
| <Ed> | it has a pointer to the main pipes page at princeton.
|
| <rexxer> | thanks Swordedge
|
| <Ed> | the version on my page is more recient than the one at hobbes.
|
| <mfc> | NT etc: perhaps the question is 'how long will the PC model survive'?
|
| <mfc> | But I see a future for other OSs, yes.
|
| <Ed> | or what will it evolve into?
|
| <Swordedge> | What I would like to see probably won't happen... One server in your house and diskless workstations for everyone else. MS won
|
| <Swordedge> | that is ms won
|
| <Chip> | IMO, the PC model will survive until installing/maintaining a NOS is as easy as an OS.
|
| <JimLarson> | mfc: Are you involed with projects at IBM other than those that are Rexx related?
|
| <Swordedge> | I keep hitting the return instead of '... won' let it
|
| <Ed> | suspect PCs will be here for quite a while. What they run and how they do work will probably change rather drasticily.
|
| <CWBrenn> | IMO, the PC model will survive for as long as paranoids like me don't trust the future to NC's
|
| <mfc> | Other projects: yes, e.g., I help run the IBM Academy of Technology
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: What do you mean by the 'PC Model?'
|
| <mfc> | And am currently doing a lot of work on Decimal arithmetic ..
|
| <Swordedge> | what does the IBM AofT do
|
| <mfc> | .. derived from ANSI Rexx, of course :-)
|
| <Ed> | hense bigdecimal
|
| <mfc> | See: www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal
|
| <rexxer> | mfc: I know a day for you has also 24 hours, but are you or someone else maintaining GoServe?
|
| <Chip> | Is the AofT the IBM Fellows thinktank?
|
| <mfc> | IBM AoT .. the top 300 tech peole in IBM, asks as consultants to rest of IBM, cross divisional, runs studies and assessments
|
| <mfc> | of new technologies, etc.
|
| <mfc> | AoT: it includes all 50 IBM Fellows.
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: can we lobby AoT?
|
| <Death_Syn> | must dash
|
| <Death_Syn> | later guys
|
| <mfc> | GoServe: I stull update it occasionally, but it's very stable, and nothing significant on wishlist
|
| <mfc> | (It runs the site I just mentioned, 50,000 hits a week, on a 486 33MHz PS/2 with 100MB hard disk :-)
|
| <rexxer> | I read on the GoServe list that you have a Win port. How about a U*X one?
|
| <Ed> | or java?
|
| <MADvirc> | WSOD is part of the future. Remote OS loading. Centralized desktop administration with thin clients. No micro$oft. Maybe not for the home user but for large and small businesses it is the most efficient model out there. I wish IBM would see that for the small business and not just the mega-corporations.
|
| <mfc> | and only goes down if there's a power cut. No memory leaks in OS/2 :-))
|
| <Ed> | or netrexx?
|
| <rexxer> | yes a Java Goserve would be cool
|
| <mfc> | lobby AoT .. not much point.
|
| <Swordedge> | Katie of IB *wants* some good java apps to sell.... everybody and their uncle sells java tools
|
| <Chip> | \whois Swordedge
|
| <Ed> | an OS designed to use a CODA type FS could be interesting...
|
| <mfc> | Unix GoServe would be easy. (Esp. if like the Win version it had no GUI). I just don't have any Unix system...
|
| <freiheit> | I tried running GoServe (with SRE-http) to do a purely internal server (for previewing my own pages before uploading them to my ISP) and _could_not_ make it ignore requests from outside systems. Any suggestions?
|
| <Ed> | it might even be useable as WSOD type system as CODA keeps a local 'cache' on disk.
|
| <mfc> | .. but IBM is drifting towards open source, so maybe one day I'll just stick the source on my website :-)
|
| * | freiheit always reserves the right to ask the low-tech questions. :)
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: translate('\whois','/','\')
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: 'lobby - not much point' You mean they don't listen to you either?
|
| <Swanee> | oops? backwards haha
|
| <rexxer> | mfc that would be great. I think people can make great things with GoServe
|
| <mfc> | GoServe: yes, run it on loopback (127.0.0.1) .. that wouldn't be visible from outside.
|
| <freiheit> | That's what I couldn't get it to do. :(
|
| <Chip> | (AIX is killing my finger memory)
|
| <freiheit> | I'll have to talk to the SRE-http developer I suppose, since that's modifying the GoServe functionality.
|
| <mfc> | lobby: no, I mean it's not its function to do development or release products
|
| <mfc> | [it's outside the management structure, in fact -- self-electing]
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: I meant lobby for policy - like please don't abandon OS/2.
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Sort of like our congress then :)
|
| <GLEB> | MADvirc> [WSOD is part] -- well, but if not to absolutize it. Very pitty that IBM chosed java only, os/2 (and rexx :-) is very good _universal_ system. For science applications, for ex. It'n not possible in remote model
|
| <mfc> | well, not like yr President, anyway :-)
|
| <rexxer> | freiheit isn't SRE written in Rexx, perhaps you can modify it. Shouldn't be difficult.
|
| * | freiheit is not REXX-literate. :)
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: :)
|
| <jjurban> | mfc: our President *loves* to get lobbied.
|
| <mfc> | lobby for policy: again, it's AoT .. not AoPolitics. We stick to technical questions :-)
|
| <Chip> | freiheit: we (RexxLA) can fix that, too!
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: Sounds like quite a group. All 50 fellows you say? Do you get to come together every so often for face to face meetings?
|
| <Swanee> | mfc: BTW: Congrats on your "Fellow"ship
|
| <mfc> | As a group meets once a year for annual meeting (3 days). Direction is set by Technology Council (15 + officers) which is elected
|
| <mfc> | also, 5 each year for 3 years. (I have 1.5 years to go of current term)
|
| <mfc> | Swanee: thnx
|
| <Swanee> | Well...
|
| <Swanee> | I suppose... we've kept our speakers for a couple of hours so it's about time to call an end to the speakup. You are all welcome to stick around and chat but we need to give the speakers an opportunity to make their exit or we could keep them here indefinately.
|
| <Swanee> | Of course, you're more than welcome to stay and chat. I'm sure we can keep you busy. ;-)
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Yeah, the wife has called me twice already. :-)
|
| <CWBrenn> | Thanks for the talk, guys!
|
| <Swanee> | We'd like to thank Dirk, Chip and Mike today for their participation and hope most of your questions were answered.
|
| <Swanee> | Dirk and Chip, thanks for being with us again. We always welcome your help and knowledge of the language and hope you can be with us again in the near future.
|
| <jjurban> | Bye Mike, cheerio!
|
| <Swanee> | A special thank you goes out to Mike Cowlishaw for taking the time to get set up with irc just to be here with us. Thank you Mike. We love your work.
|
| <mfc> | I've enjoyed it .. many thanks for the invitation!
|
| <Projects> | We'd also like to see if there's any interest in Saturday speakups on a once-per-month basis
|
| <Dirk_Terr> | Yes Mike, thanks for joining us.
|
| <Ed> | YES
|
| <freiheit> | As always, be sure to check the VOICE Events Calendar for our upcoming SpeakUp Sessions. We're scheduled through March right now. http://www.os2voice.org/
|
| <MADvirc> | Is there interest in future speakup events on Saturday at this time.
|
| <mfc> | Now I know where this is, I'll drop in more often...
|
| <jjurban> | Sat speakups - I vote yes.
|
| <Ed> | saturday at 1pm est is a GOOD time for these meetings
|
| <Swanee> | Thanks a million Mike. I really enjoyed the time.
|
| <Xavi> | Sat speakups - me too!
|
| <Ed> | and warpcast is a good place to put reminders too.
|
| <JimLarson> | MADvirc: as the weather gets nicer, prolly not.
|
| <CWBrenn> | I like the Sat speakups.
|
| <mfc> | OK, G'nite, all..
|
| <Swordedge> | Keep the variety. Sat is sometimes hard to do because of other activities.
|
| <rexxer> | Sat speakups at 18:00 GMT are great so we can join from both sides of the Atlantic
|
| <Swanee> | Good night Mike, Have a great day!
|
| <_biz_> | g'nite?
|
| <_biz_> | its' 2 p.m.
|
| <Chip> | Mike's in England...
|
| <_biz_> | ah
|
| <freiheit> | :)
|
| <_biz_> | heh
|
| <_biz_> | that would explain it then
|
| <Projects> | Swordedge: these will be in addition to the regular speakups
|
| <Swanee> | Dirk! I didn't get to say goodbye!
|
| <SunnyBear> | _biz_: only where you are....
|
| <Xavi> | In Europe is almost 09:00pm
|
| <Chip> | He skipped dinner to join us.
|
| <SunnyBear> | _biz_: this be international...
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: You won't leave without a parting shot will you?
|
| <SunnyBear> | _biz_: impressed? :)
|
| <rexxer> | Xavi Are you in Spain or in the US right now
|
| <Swanee> | :)
|
| <jjurban> | How many voice members are there now?
|
| <Swanee> | Chip: Is there any progress on the Rexx repository?
|
| <Xavi> | Currently I am in North Carolina, but my internal clock is still in Spain... :)
|
| <Projects> | jjurban: 126
|
| * | rexxer is going to dinner now
|
| <CWBrenn> | later, everyone...
|
| <Chip> | If I can plug the Rexx Symposium one last time: it's May 3-5 in Jacksonville, Fl.
|
| <Swanee> | rexxer: Great to see you again!
|
| <Erdrick> | suppose I should say something.... bye all.
|
| <Chip> | see www.rexxla.org for details.
|
| <SunnyBear> | _biz_: Daytona Beach Fl... you're hub... :)
|
| <rexxer> | Swanee me too!
|
| <Swanee> | rexxer: Maybe warpStock again?
|
| <_biz_> | ahh
|
| <rexxer> | Xavi see(read) you on the teamspain list :)
|
| <_biz_> | hehe
|
| <_biz_> | impressed
|
| <_biz_> | ?
|
| <_biz_> | that's it's international?
|
| <_biz_> | not really :)
|
| <_biz_> | heheh
|
| <rexxer> | Swanee: I cant promise but I'll try :)
|
| <_biz_> | it's irc
|
| <_biz_> | of course it is :)
|
| <Swanee> | For the rest of you... rexxer was the best dressed man at WarpStock98
|
| <rexxer> | Swanee this time I'd buy you the drinks ;)
|
| <Chip> | Rexx repository: short answer - not much, we're hardware resource constrained
|
| <rexxer> | he he
|
| <Xavi> | 'casue he not American... :)
|
| <SunnyBear> | Swanee: what'd he win for that?
|
| <Swanee> | hehe, oh I'd maybe have one... or two... or more! :-)
|
| <Ed> | If anyone is interested in a port of pipes (a la CMS) for netrexx see: www.cam.org/~tomlins/njpipes.html
|
| <Swanee> | Just our respect but what can be better than that?
|
| <Chip> | If we can find a spot to host it, and a willing Repositorian, we can move ahead.
|