SpeakUp with Sundial Systems (Topic: Relish time management/PIM) from 02/01/99.

<Kurt_P>	how easy is it to move data from Borland Sidekick for windows to relish?
<Randell>	Do we want to get (formally) started yet?
<mandie>	Randell: yes, I didn't want to discourage Kurt :)
<mandie>	VOICE would like to welcome Randell Flint of Sundial Systems
<mandie>	Randell would you tell us a bit about Relish
<Randell>	Let me answer Kurt's question real quick
<Randell>	Basically, no matter what PIM you have, if you can get the info out in a "comma separated" form...
<Randell>	you can probably get it into Relish.
<Randell>	Ok, a little about Relish.
<Randell>	We like to describe Relish (and it's kin, Relish Net) as a time management product.
<Randell>	Basically, that's means it's *primary* purpose is to keep track of things that you need to do or that you want to schedule
<Randell>	You can keep track of all the traditional kinds of "calendar" things like appointments, meetings, etc.
<Randell>	But one thing rather unique about the way Relish does this...
<Randell>	is that it *always* gives you reminders about the things on your calendar (unless you tell it not to).
<Randell>	Part of what it does is actively track each item you put in.
<Randell>	So, even if you don't have the program running at, say, 8pm, but you have something scheduled for 8pm,
<mandie>	one of the major features that I wanted was the reminders :)
<Randell>	it will remind you about that thing at 8pm the next time you start the program (to make sure you took care of it).
<Randell>	It's also designed to "hide" in the background while it's tracking things...
<Randell>	so most people *always* have the background processes (the "NOW Service Process") running whenever
<Randell>	their system is up. With this, Relish will pop reminders onto the screen even when it's
<Randell>	apparently not running... and those reminders are full featured. You can defer the
<Randell>	reminder to a different time, put all reminders on hold, even reschedule the event right from
<Randell>	the reminder.
<Randell>	There are some other neat things about the way Relish deals with calendar items but we can return to that later.
<mandie>	Randell: you don't have to make the change in the original if it's scheduled monthly?
<Randell>	Of course, it also includes a phone book though we don't bill it as a contact manger or anything along those lines.
<Randell>	mandie: I'm not entirely sure of your question... but the "orginal" of a repeating note is always the "next" one into the future...
<Randell>	that's the one that you would need to change.
<mandie>	ahh, ok
<Randell>	Relish Net extends Relish across the LAN...
<Randell>	Basically, Relish Net gives you everything in Relish plus the ability to do group scheduling,
<Randell>	meeting room planning, etc.
<Projects>	BoD meeting planning...
<Projects>	:)
<Randell>	What's neat about the Relish Net technolgy is that it *really* is distributed client server.
<Randell>	It manages databases of info on each client workstation and on the server... exchanging
<Randell>	messages back and forth to keep everything in sync (or resync after a disconnection).
<Randell>	I'm really proud of the fact that there is *no* polling on the network in Relish Net.
<Randell>	Everything is do with realtime messaging so you can actually see windows update
<mandie>	Randell: is the database passwd protected?
<Randell>	on multiple workstations almost simultaneously. (But that's a techno geeky thing.)
<joat>	mandie: if you want it to be, it is pw protected
<mandie>	joat: thx :)
<Randell>	mandie, each user's info is protected by a password for remote access and, optionally,
<mandie>	I'm not familiar with Relish net at all..but it sounds interesting
<Kurt_P>	What calendar formats are available?
<Randell>	a password for local access on their own workstation as well.
<Randell>	Relish (or Relish Net) actually uses all this same messaging technology on a single system as well.
<Randell>	If you have multiple views of your info open (such as when using multiple "buns" as we call them)
<Randell>	each window communicates with the background process which manages the database
<Randell>	of everything in your calendar/phonebook/etc. Whenever a window needs to be updated
<Randell>	because the info has changed, the content for the window is automatically recalculated and
<Randell>	the update "sent
<Randell>	the update "sent" to the window for redisplay -- without the user (or the window) doing anything.
<freiheit>	Very nice. I wish more of OS/2 worked that way. :)
<mandie>	so if a workstation is down, when it's restarted it will automatically update the database
<Randell>	freiheit, thanks
<Randell>	mandie, yes, without any user intervention
<Randell>	We really think the Relish (and Relish Net) architecture is strong and it has stood the test of time as well.
<mandie>	so Relish Net is a totally seperate program?
<mandie>	I should have ordered Relish Net :(
<Randell>	It would take me most of the time we have tonight to go over all the features... so rather than do that
<os2r>	is there any way to use it with Palm Pilot?
<Randell>	shall we open it for questions?
<mandie>	oh, I'm sorry.....I've done nothing but ask questions!
<mandie>	yes, questions .......... :)
<Randell>	mandie, Relish Net is currently separate... but is an upgrade from (ordinary) Relish.
<mandie>	ah, ok
<os2r>	sorry I rushed that...is there anyway to integrate it with PalmPilot?
<Randell>	os2r, a formal interface to the Palm Pilot is in the works but you can "kinda" (not easily) do it now.
<jadeh>	I'm interested in the Palm interface to, what does "kinda" mean?
<os2r>	I've had Relish since v1 but haven't used it fully until after I saw your demo at Warpstock...now I am using PalmPilot and want to keep using it
<Randell>	I guess I should say that we do have a major upgrade to Relish (and Relish Net) in the works... it will be called 2.3 (the curent version is 2.23).
<joat>	in Relish net, I want a global phonebook. so I created a 'Thing' with the name of my business. The plan is to put the major phonebook info there, attached to that Thing, and default to 'View as '. am I thinking correctly?
<joat>	that should keep the phonebook info on the server, and leave teh users free to create their own private books . . . .
<mandie>	Randell: any time frame for the upgrade release?
<Randell>	jadeh, "kinda" in this sense (honestly) means I wouldn't really try it unless you really need it. Rollin, who couldn't be with us tonight, does it with his own Palm Pilot and could provide some of the details if you drop a note to support
<Randell>	joat, yep... be sure to create those global phone book entries with a "public" privacy level so everybody can see (but not modify) them
<jadeh>	Randell: thanks, I'll contact Rollin sometime.
<Randell>	mandie, I was hoping we might be able to "preannounce" the 2.3 timeframe tonight... but I'm just not comfortable with were we are yet.
<DoubleT>	Randell: I very much want the Palm interface, too. Could Rollin post what he does now on your website.
<mandie>	Randell: ok, if I were to purchase it now, when the upgrade is released would I have to pay for the upgrade?
<os2r>	I second that, Randell
<Randell>	So, all I can say is "relatively soon"... most likely, there will be a public prerelease (beta) version available for some time (like we did with Mesa 2 2.2)
<Randell>	I'm see if Rollin can put together some of the info on the "temporary" approach to doing Palm Pilot exchange... just keep in mind that we are working on a "real" solution as well.
<Kurt_P>	what calendar formats are supported? One day, two day, Week, Month, Year? 8 hour day, 12 hour day 24 hour day?
<Randell>	mandie, we haven't formally announced anything about an upgrade but, yes, if you buy Relish
<Randell>	now you will be able to get 2.3 (when available) at no charge.
<mandie>	ah, ok
<DoubleT>	Randell: Could you tell us some of what will be in the not "formally announced" upgrade? :)
<Randell>	Kurt, we support alot of formats... the primary ones are day, week, month... but you can also pick *any* arbitrary time period from 1 second to many years.
*	mandie has reminders set up for the entire year
<Randell>	Most of what is going into the upgrade are things people have been asking for over the years...
<Randell>	Some (brief) examples...
*	joat would like to see a date-stamp and time-stamp in the memo-editor
<Randell>	* The ability to have a reminder at the *end* of the time period for which something is scheduled.
<Randell>	* Yes, joat, a way to date/time stamp memo entries (with our memo editor or your favorite editor)
<mandie>	sounds like a "Ok let's wrap it up" reminder :)
<Randell>	* Ability to "log" the duration of phone calls, etc, automatically
*	Sector wraps up mandie and hands her to Randell as a gift...
<Projects>	eh?
<Randell>	* vCard/vCalendar support
<mandie>	Sector :)
<Projects>	logging sounds good... from what I remember of Relish it didn't do that (5 or 6 years ago)
<Randell>	* New options for controling the modem when dialing a call
<Randell>	* lots of little user interface improvement
<mandie>	I tried to find a way to migrate windows organizer into Relish...did I miss something?
<joat>	vCard/vCalendar ?
<Randell>	* Ability to import/export "parts" of names/addresses, etc,
<Kurt_P>	Phone dialing? How well do you integrate with InJoy?
<Randell>	* Lots, and lots of stuff...
<Randell>	Kurt, sorry I don't know the specifics about InJoy
<Randell>	mandie, I didn't understand your question.
<mandie>	I wanted to migrate my windows organizer file into Relish...
<Randell>	joat, vCard/vCalendar is a big one... lets come back to that a bit later.
<DoubleT>	Randell: Are you saying we could start/stop a timer on a Todo item? For example, a todo might be something I work on for an hour now and then 2 hours tomorrow.
<Projects>	yeah, me too...
<Randell>	mandie, we don't specifically support the windows organizer... I don't remember is it has an export function (which you would need to be able to get the info into a form Relish could understand)
<Randell>	DoubleT, in 2.3, yes.
<DoubleT>	Randell: Nice. I like that one!
<mandie>	how about the option to automatically add holidays to the monthly bun?
<Randell>	mandie, the problem is with all the different holidays that people might or might not want. We are planning on having a file of available holidays that you can edit and choose from.
<mandie>	good :)
<Randell>	Oh, forgot one of my own favorite things in 2.3...
<Projects>	what are holidays? :)
<mandie>	projects: a US thing :)
<Projects>	ah :)
<joat>	Projects: holidays are when other people have days off
<Kurt_P>	Do you have a sample file showing the format required for a Data-base showing fields, data types, length restrictions etc?
<Randell>	There is an area code lookup function that can tell you "where" an area code is... we will be keeping this info up to date on our website and you can download the lastest listings (since they keep adding new ones almost every day)
*	Sector wonders what days off are
<mandie>	Randell: that would be very handy
<Randell>	Kurt_P, sorry, we don't publish the database format. However, we do document the import/export fields fairly completely and encourage people to access the data that way.
<Randell>	Kurt, I should also mention that Relish is *very* forgiving about data formats...
<Randell>	You can enter (or import) times, dates, phone numbers, etc, in almost any format and Relish will recognize them.
<DoubleT>	Randell: Will you be adding fields to the notes input screens? For example, in the phonebook, an email address field?
<Randell>	We actually have a small little AI engine in the product to figure out times and dates based on minimal info.
<Randell>	The phone book does not have a specific email address field though this is something we are considering... for now you can put it in the Remarks on in the (up to 32K) memo you can attach to any phone book entry (or anything on your schedule )
<Kurt_P>	If I want to use a comma delimited file to mass transfer from Sidekick, It helps to sort the records to the expected format to make it easy for relish to swollow a large file.
<Randell>	Kurt, agreed. But you can also tell Relish what order the fields are in... we don't require
<mandie>	Randell: how about a fields for Business / Home
<Randell>	any particular order
<Randell>	mandie, we do not have Business/Home phone number fields... instead you just enter the phone numbers in *one* field, label them almost however you want, and let Relish figure out what it what when it comes to dial
<jadeh>	Randell, I too would like to see an e-mail address field, in fact, it's almost mandatory today.
<Randell>	For instance, you could enter "555-1212 (home), 562-555-1235 work 333-1234 for fax" (yes, just like that) and it would figure it out.
<Randell>	I do agree that email addresses are becoming almost mandatory.
*	MADodel uses that for all his wifes numbers. I do wish the filed were just a bit larger tough.
<Kurt_P>	Before I retired, I tried to transfer from Sidekick to Lotus Notes PIM. Blew the whole setup and got IT reeealy ticked. Now I am IT and don't want to get mad a myself ;}
<mandie>	madodel: you have that many wives!
*	MADodel would like to see email and web page fields.
<MADodel>	ah that should be "wife's"
<Randell>	I know about the need for a longer phone number field... I definitely will admit the current limit of 78 characters is now too short...
*	MADodel has enough with 1 wife.
<Randell>	We will eventually increase the limit on the size of the phone number(s) field... but I don't know if we will get than into 2.3 (for reasons too complex to get into here)
<Randell>	Kurt, I can understand that frustration.
<MADodel>	What about improving the print function? specifically adding some customization beyond a title. I really would like to use some color and maybe add a graphic.
<DoubleT>	Randell: Would it be possible to add some userdefined fields, in addition to the remarks field, which could be used to sort/filter both reports and the buns views?
<Randell>	MaDodel, our long term plan for printing is for you to be able to print whatever you want from Relish using Clearloook... that would give you complete control over the prints...
<MADodel>	But no ime frame on that I take it? ;-)
<MADodel>	ime=time
<Randell>	In the shorter term, we will be adding some additional printing fuctionality... but we will not be adding anything approaching a "custom report" type of capabillity.
<DoubleT>	Perhaps the userdefined fields could tie in to DBExpert?
<Randell>	DoubleT, user-defined fields are on our list of future features... but it's not clear how much of that support will appear in 2.3 vs what appears in 3.0...
<Randell>	There are some distinct performance issues, particularly on the Net, when sorting/filtering on user-defined fields that cover multiple users info.
<Randell>	Oh, I should have also mentioned that 2.3 will be a "single package" product -- Relish will be the Relish Net client right out of the package.
<Randell>	And I should have also mentioned that we will be adding (finally) TCP/IP support as well.
<mandie>	then it sounds like a "Major" upgrade!
<Randell>	DoubleT, there is a possibility that you will be able to tie the Relish data to DBExpert, but that won't happen until the 3.0 timeframe.
<Randell>	mandie, yes, it is a major upgrade... not as major as the Mesa 2.2 one, but ordinarily big enough to warrant a "3.0" number...
<StevenL>	If 2.3 is a RelishNet upgrade, does that mean we will be now be able to assign notes to multiple groups?
<joat>	are there any issues with starting the Relish Net server portion on a Warp4 Peer machine?
<Randell>	We are still going to call it 2.3, however, because the "3.0" number is "reserved for future use" around here (for reasons I will *not* comment on)
<mandie>	Randell: your secret is safe here :)
<MADodel>	hehehe, Sundial Suite 3.0?
<Randell>	StevenL, it hasn't been decided if you can assign notes to multiple groups in 2.3... however, you definitely will be able to *view* multiple groups together in 2.3.
<freiheit>	That would be nice (assuming Clearlook can handle WordPerfect 6/7/8 documents. :))
<StevenL>	Also, any thought on Note templates?
<Randell>	joat, no particular issues... just follow the update to the docs about starting the service and making it visible to the other workstations
*	mandie only has DBExpert and Relish and is VERY happy with the quality of Sundial products!
*	MADodel has Relish and Relish Net and Mesa 2 2.2
<joat>	cool
<Randell>	StevenL, "note" templates are on the plan for 2.3... but they may not make the cut if we run out of time
*	Projects just downloaded Relish...
<StevenL>	StevenL has Relish and Mesa and soon Relish Net (can't wait for 2.3 )
<MADodel>	won Relish Net at a speakup a wile back as a matter of fact.
<mandie>	Mad: why didn't you invite us!
<Randell>	Projects, keep in mind the download (working model) only covers the single user features (and even then, not some of the Workplace Shell stuff like our Bun objects)
*	joat just installed 2-node Relish Net on his home lan. It sees everything put in on the demo :>
<Projects>	Randell: well, gotta try it out :)
<mandie>	Projects: you'll be missing ALOT without the BUns
<Randell>	joat, see, we belive in upgradability -- even from the demo
<Projects>	mandie: I'm after the timer thing... need something decent for job tracking
*	Projects has a PIM of sorts that does the reminders etc...
<Randell>	mandie, one question I have is do you need/want multiple (simultaneous) timers
<Projects>	yes
<Projects>	:)
<Randell>	Should I take a moment to explain "Buns"
<joat>	yes
<DoubleT>	Randell: Yes, on the multiple timers.
<StevenL>	If you are going to do job tracking, how would you want Relish to capture the history?
<Randell>	StevenL, that's the idea...
*	Projects has no idea, that's why I need to try it out first
<Randell>	Ok, let me talk about Buns for a minute...
<Swanee>	Randell: Go with the BUNS thing...
<Randell>	In a single Relish (or Relish Net) window you can slice and dice your Relish info in alot of different ways...
<Randell>	For instance, you can use "groups" to catagorize things, you can you our "lookup" (query by example) options to restrict the view to things with particular content, etc.
<Randell>	All that is great, but it can take a number of steps to setup the slice and dice for something particular you want...
<Randell>	So, wouldn't it be nice if you could "save" those slices and dices that you found useful...
<Randell>	That's what a Bun does.
<Randell>	A Bun is a true Workplace Shell object the derives from a template
<Randell>	When you open it up, it looks like an ordinary Relish window.
<Randell>	When you close it, it remembers what you were viewing and how you were viewing it (window positions, colors, fonts, etc).
<mandie>	very user defined
<Randell>	When you open it up again... you get right back to that same set of information...
<Randell>	But, very importantly,...
<mandie>	and configured to the individuals preference...I really like it
<Randell>	The content of a Bun is *always* kept up to date!
<Randell>	There is no "data" in the Bun itself...
<Randell>	You can think of it as a "view" into the Relish (or Relish Net) database.
<freiheit>	So it's like a Shadow (or Work Area)?
<Randell>	No matter where something is changed, in any Relish window, if it affects the view in a Bun that content is *instantly* updated.
<Randell>	freiheit, it's *better* than a Shadow since it does *not* have to match the original... each one can be customized.
<Randell>	All buns as "tied together" under the covers using our messaging technology... and they are very lightweight objects.
<MADodel>	Randell: why can't I put a bun on the warpcenter? I have tried in the past and they always get disconected.
<Randell>	You can define 10's or 100's of Buns and open just the ones you need when you need them.
<freiheit>	So it's like a BeOS "replicant". *grin* Might be a new market to look into.
<Randell>	For instance, it's not unreasonable to have a bun that represents all your phone call and other interactions with a particular customer, say Fred Jones, over the last year.
<Randell>	MADodel, it *should* work. If you still have problems with it, let support (relish@sundialsystems.com) know... and be sure to tell us exactly what fixpak level you are at.
<Randell>	(Most of us here have at least one Bun, if not several, on our WarpCenters.)
*	Projects has no warpcentre... no buns either come to think of it :)
<Swanee>	Hi Pockets
<HiPockets>	HI
<Randell>	Shall we return to the earlier question about what is vCard/vCalendar?
<Projects>	sure
<Randell>	Ok...
<Sector>	We now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast
<Randell>	vCard and vCalendar are (relatively) new standards for exchanging information between PIMs (and similar) programs.
<Randell>	It's always been a problem to exchange info between these types of products because they tend to have
<Randell>	different ideas about what information they contain and definitely all have different file formats.
<Randell>	vCard (for business card, ie phonebook info) and vCalendar (for calendar/schedule info) were designed to get around this.
<mandie>	Randell: do you *think* our April speakup topic could be Relish Net 2.3 ?
<Randell>	They provide standard ways to express business cards, to dos, events, etc, as plain text files that can be imported/exported, emailed, etc.
<StevenL>	I'll vote for that
<Swanee>	Randell: How does a vcard make it's from say, Communicator to Relish?
<Randell>	There are, in fact, now some web sites that allow you to get information from them in vCard format.
<Randell>	And many "business card" scanners produce vCard format info as well.
<Swanee>	Randell: Like email vcard attachments
<Randell>	We at Sundial were one of the early companies to endorse the standards (during their development) and, in fact, contributed to both of the standards several years ago.
<Randell>	What this all means is that, at some point in the future, you will be able to do things like group scheduling without everyone having to use the same product!
<mandie>	doesn't sound like a Gates strategy to me :)
<Randell>	Just like you can send email from one user to another today, mostly independent of the program (or platform) they use, vCard/vCalendar have the *potential* of
<StevenL>	That will be great until we start getting Active V-card pages...
<Randell>	giving you the same capability for your PIM info in the future... if enough vendors adopt and support the standard.
<Randell>	Swannee, the way it will work (Communicator to Relish)...
<Randell>	is that you will define Relish to be the helper application (external viewer) for anything with the vCard or vCalendar attachement (MIME) type.
<DoubleT>	Wow!
<Swanee>	Oh sure. That makes sense
*	Swanee never though of that
*	Sector gives Swanee some thoughts
<Randell>	Mandie, I want to be a little cautious and not *commit* to Relish 2.3 being the April topic until I know if we will have a PreRelease available by then...
<mandie>	Randell: ok, I'll email you and we'll determine something for April
<Randell>	mandie, sounds like a plan...
<mandie>	do we have anymore questions for RAndell tonight?
*	Swanee loses Sector's thought's and thinks he's a cluster
<StevenL>	Yes.
<mandie>	go for it :)
*	Sector hands Swanee a cluster bomb
<StevenL>	Any possibility that I will be able to drop burgers on my buns in 2.3?
<Sector>	With cheese?
<freiheit>	lol
<jadeh>	Randell, will the vCalendar be compatible with CS&T/Netscape technology?
*	Swanee gets flustered with the clusters and throws it back to Sector
<Randell>	StevenL... I've been working to hard to come up with a good "condiment" answer for that one.
*	Sector swings a bat and hits it back to Swanee
<jadeh>	Randell, oops, I meant to say Relish/vCalendar be compatible w/CS&T?
*	Swanee watches it open and separate into a thousand little hours d'ourves with Relish on them and catches three with his mouth
<Randell>	jadah, I believe so but I don't know for sure. The idea is for the IMC to converge all players onto one (eventually approved) internet standard.
<joat>	is there a way for an even to be placed on multiple calendars at once?
<joat>	event, that is
<Randell>	joat, absolutely... just pick who (and/or where and/or what) it goes to.
<Sector>	Randell: How about "that feature will not be available until the release of the Burger addon product"
<Randell>	There's also the ability to do free time searches, etc.
<joat>	um. allatonce, in one move? (pick multiple folks to direct it to?)
<Randell>	Sector, the problem is that "burger" is not one of our assigned codenames... mayo is, mustard is, even cranberry sauce was at one time... but not burger.
<Randell>	joat, yes.
<joat>	mmmmmmmm. cranberry sauce!
<joat>	Randell: thanks
*	Sector assignes burger to Sundial Systems
<Randell>	we're a very food oriented company...
<StevenL>	Any changes to the Done flag?
<MADodel>	Randell: Wasn't there also a Relish web product?
<mandie>	you wouldn't know it by looking at you guys...and gals :)
<jadeh>	Randell, thanks for the info. Besides Relish, I also really like Mesa 2.2.
<Randell>	StevenL, yes... without going into all the gory details for people that don't know what we are talking about, the Done flag behavior is more configurable
*	Sector yells FOOD FIGHT!
<Randell>	MADodel, yes there is also Relish Web...
<Swanee>	Randell: You've made me hungry now. I hope you're happy... :)
<Randell>	Relish Web 1.0 is our addon to Relish (and Relish Net) that generates static HTML for info you have in Relish.
*	Sector throws Swanee a Relish burger
<StevenL>	I'm getting happier...
<mandie>	Randell: do you offer a group license for Relish Net?
<Randell>	We are continuing to work on what is nominally called "Relish Web Pro" that provides full access to your Relish (or Relish Net) info via your browser.
<Randell>	"Relish Web Pro" is kinda tied to things in the Relish 2.3 backend... so it won't appear until then (or sometime later).
<StevenL>	Do you get a lot of requests for Web access or is it just something you expect to grow?
<Randell>	mandie, in what sense do you mean "group license" ... currently, you license Relish Net for a server and a particular number (2, 5, 10, ...) client workstations.
<mandie>	Randell: ok, that's my question..we're talking in our voiceops channel and think it would be very useful...
<Randell>	StevenL, we have *had* lots of requests over the years and the frequency is growing... it's particularly important to some of our corporate customers that have at least some non-OS/2 workstations
<DoubleT>	Randell: I've downloaded the Relish Web demo and like it. Is there anywhere to buy and download Relish Web on line?
<Randell>	mandie, to be useful for that purpose you will probably need the TCP/IP support in 2.3 (or the vCalendar support)
<StevenL>	That's pretty much what I expected. Makes sense as long as Browsers remain somewhat compatible.
<Randell>	DoubleT, you now *have* the product and all you need is the license number to enable it. That's not available anywhere on line but you can FAX you order into us.
<Randell>	(Order forms are available at www.sundialsystems.com...)
<DoubleT>	Thanks.
<mandie>	Randell: I must have misunderstood Relish Net...is that basically for a lan setup?
<Randell>	You can also call in your order... and most OS/2 resellers stock it as well.
<Randell>	mandie, *currently* Relish is for single user, Relish Net is for (relatively local) LAN use. In the 2.3 era, the TCP/IP support will make it practical to use Relish (which will include Relish Net) across a wide area as well.
<mandie>	Randell: ah, ok..we'll wait for 2.3 then
<Randell>	(The reason the wide area use will be practical is because of the fact that we use messaging, not file access across the wire.)
<mandie>	so all data will need to be updated by the individual?
<Randell>	I'm not sure what you mean by that.
<mandie>	Relish net on the lan can be used to automatically sync all databases
<Randell>	mandie, yes.
<mandie>	but you said 2.3 won't access files
<Randell>	2.2 doesn't access files.
<mandie>	hmm..then how does it update the database?
<mandie>	I know..I'm confused...or confusing :)
<Randell>	Relish (in every version) does everything with a "push/pull" technology by sending messages (requests and results) between one system and another... there is code running on every client and on the server.
<mandie>	ahhhhh
<Swanee>	mandie: It's ok, just lie down here and tell me your troubles. Let's start with your childhood...
<Randell>	The difference is that 2.3 will be able to use TCP/IP messaging rather than just local LAN messaging.
<mandie>	got it now :)
<mandie>	without the assistance of Swanee!
<Swanee>	hehe
<mandie>	if we don't have anymore questions...Randell has a trivia question
<Randell>	It's just that we're supposed to worry about all this hi tech stuff so you don't have to...
<mandie>	Randell: figured it was over my head :)
*	Projects sends Randell all his high tech stuff "Here, you worry about it"
<Projects>	:)
<mandie>	Randell: you have the trivia floor :)
<Randell>	Ok...
<Randell>	First, the rules.
<Randell>	I like questions that everybody has a chance of getting correct.
<StevenL>	1+1
<Randell>	So, even if you don't know the answer, guess...
<Blackbird>	eleven
<StevenL>	1||1
*	Sector guesses 3
<Sector>	How about: 00000010
<Randell>	First correct anwer does *not* win... if there is more than one, I'll ask for a more specific answer.
<Randell>	Mandie, "what's tonight's fabulous prize?"
<mandie>	Randell has to get going folks....so can we hold the comments plz :)
<mandie>	The fabulous program from Sundial..Relish!
<Randell>	That's right...
<Randell>	A copy of Relish 2.2 (single user) goes to the lucky winner.
<Randell>	And the trivia question is Relish related...
<Randell>	Here we go...l
<Swanee>	So mandie is your Vanna White?
<Randell>	What *year* was the first line of code written that still remains in use in Relish today?
<StevenL>	1989
<DoubleT>	1988
<Blackbird>	1986
<Randell>	Nope.
<joat>	1991
<Dark>	1993
<DoubleT>	1987
<Blackbird>	1948
<os2r>	1992
<Swanee>	Blackbird: LOL!!!
<Randell>	Any more answers... limit ONE per person please!
*	Dark guesses 20th century...
<Randell>	The correct answer is...
<Swanee>	Someone try between 1989 and 1991
<joat>	1982 <--- second guess
<Randell>	1987 but DoubleT gave that as his *second* answer... so we will have a playoff between DoubleT (1988) and Blackbird (1986).
<Dark>	swanee: Could you be more specific..
<Projects>	whoa... that's a long time ago...
<DoubleT>	I'm ready!
<Swanee>	Dark: hehe, I can't vote but I figured that was still open for someone to try
<Randell>	DoubleT and Blackbird only, what *month* was the line of code written in? (One answer each, closest one wins.)
<Dark>	:)
<Blackbird>	august
<DoubleT>	february
<Dark>	june
*	Dark waited till they answered..
<Randell>	The correct answer was July... so Blackbird gets it!
<mandie>	Congratulations Blackbird!!!
<Blackbird>	yeh eeyhh yehhey
<DoubleT>	Congratulation, Blackbird!
*	Dark pats Blackbird on the back.
<StevenL>	Hooray..
<os2r>	congrats blackbird
<Blackbird>	thanks all
<mandie>	Blackbird, msg freiheit with your real name so we can announce your winning :)
<Dark>	blackbird: You didn't have a clue did you :)
<Dark>	hehe.. lucky guess..
<Randell>	(The code was written in July 1987 just after Microsoft and IBM shipped the first prerelease development kit for OS/2 1.0.)
<Blackbird>	that's a secret only sector knows
<Dark>	haha
<Sector>	Blackbirds real name is classified
<mandie>	VOICE would like to than Randell for the informative session on Relish and Relish Net...We look forward to the new upgrades :)
<Swanee>	OK Blackbird? What Time of the day was it? What second? What nanosecond?
<mandie>	than=thank :)
<Dark>	swanee: Probably around 10am..
<StevenL>	Thanks Randell. See you around...
<mandie>	We'd also like to thank everyone for coming to the speakup tonight
<Dark>	swanee: Lazy programmer who had to have their coffee first.
<mandie>	2/8 will be a speakup on Networking with Tim Sipples
<Swanee>	Dark: hehe
<os2r>	thanks Randell
<Randell>	Thanks, as always, for having us (eventhough it was only me tonight)
<DoubleT>	Thanks, Randell! The upgrade sounds great. Hope the PalmPilot support is not long in coming! :)
*	Sector hopes it will be with Tim Sipples...
<joat>	Thankyou, Randell
*	Dark mandie Guess the crowds have died down in the past year since I last visited huh?
*	Projects takes his hat off to Sundial for sticking around for so many years...
<mandie>	Dark: we missed putting out a reminder :(*
<Dark>	hmm.. that was for mandie.
<Dark>	Mandie: haha.. oh :)
<Randell>	Projects, and we intend to stick around alot longer...
<mandie>	if ppl had Relish...they could set their own reminder :)
<Projects>	Randell: good to hear :)
<mandie>	RAndell: thanks and I'll be in touch for the topic for April
*	Projects is quite tired of deserters...
*	Dark remembers the good old days before Voice even existed, let olone on this network.
<Randell>	Thank you all for coming and see you again in April...
<mandie>	Randell: g'nite ;)
*	Dark waves to Randell...
<Sector>	That must have been when messages where carved in stone
<Projects>	heh... y1k compliant tablets?
<mandie>	other than board members...how many ppl here tonight are members of VOICE?
<mandie>	say aye :)
<os2r>	aye
<mandie>	hmm
*	Dark has thought about it.. But it's been a long time since I've used OS/2 (due to video drivers not existing. Yay Scitech!)
*	Sector ah um err, well
<mandie>	Dark: have you tried the beta?
<Dark>	mandie: I got the email :), Downloaded..
<Swanee>	Dark: We're looking fprward to that project getting finished
<mandie>	with 100+ members..that's very disappointing :(
<Dark>	Now I gotta find a way to make os/2 run on a diskless setup :)
<Swanee>	Dark: what video card?
<mandie>	os2r: I'm glad you're here :)
<Dark>	or buy a new harddisk.
<Projects>	the alpha you mean...
<Dark>	swanee: Diamond Viper v330
<os2r>	thanks mandie :-)
<Dark>	Projects: yeah.. guess it would be the alpha.
<Swanee>	That's an S3 chip isn't it?
<Dark>	swanee: NVidia
<Projects>	127 members
<Swanee>	oh
<Dark>	it's supported by their drivers.
<Dark>	not by os/2 directly
<Sector>	I've got OS/2 running on a Diamond Stealth 64 Video 2001 (Trio 64V+ with drivers from S3)
<Dark>	heck.. I heard communicator was even ported to os/2 :)
<Dark>	sector: That was shortly before diamond dumped os/2 support.
<freiheit>	Goodnight all! The log of tonight's SpeakUp will be posted to the VOICE website by tomorrow.
<mandie>	Dark: sure is..and StarOffice is available now also
<Swanee>	Dark: By S3 drivers you mean or NVidia's drivers
<Dark>	mandie: I knew staroffice was out there.
<Projects>	Sector: I tried... and failed. Had to buy another new video card
<mandie>	freiheit: did you get the winners real name?
<Sector>	I got the drivers from S3 not Diamond
<freiheit>	And keep your eyes on the VOICE Events Calendar for our upcoming SpeakUp sessions!
<os2r>	goodnight...thanks for the session folks.....
<freiheit>	mandie, yes I did.
<mandie>	os2r: g'nite :)
<mandie>	ok :)