VOICE - SpeakUp with Peter Nielsen, author of PMView from 03/29/99

<Abraxas>	TT the "official" start time is not for almost another hour ... however, it's up to Peter if he feels like answering questions, now.
<Peter>	Abraxas, what time is it there? Isn't it already past 7:00 EST ?
<Abraxas>	Peter it's 6:08 PM EST
<Peter>	Abraxas, Ah, no daylight saving time?
<_spTim>	re
<Abraxas>	Peter DST doesn't start here until the end of April
<TT>	Peter, I think our friends from USA don't change the hour
<TT>	to the Summer Time, yet...
<Abraxas>	And, to complicate matters even more, here in Indiana (where I live) we don't observe DST
<Abraxas>	TheSeer Heya!!
<TheSeer>	heya :)
<Peter>	Abraxas, I know about Indiana not having DST, but I thought the US and Europe change to DST at the same time...
<Abraxas>	Apparantley not :-)
<Abraxas>	US changes to DST on the last Sunday in April
<TheSeer>	it's a big mess ;)
<Peter>	Europe changed last Sunday
<Abraxas>	US is behind, again :-)
<Peter>	:-)
<TT>	OH! OH! I can't stay to the begining of the chat
<spTim>	Peter: if europe and usa would switch the time on the same day, bios daylight saving would work :)
<Abraxas>	TheSeer you think it's a mess .... you ought to live here and go through the debates EVERY YEAR about DST
<TT>	I'm at work and this facility close at 1AM
<Abraxas>	TT what time is it, now?
<TT>	00:11:54
<Abraxas>	TT so you have almost 2 hours, yet?
<Abraxas>	Chat starts in 45 minutes
<Abraxas>	officially
<TT>	No! Almost 45 minutes
<spTim>	tt: where do you live ? i don't know .pt as toplevel domain yet
<TT>	Portugal
<Abraxas>	Well, I'm not going to stop anyone from asking questions, and I'm certainly not going to stop Peter from answering them :-)
<Abraxas>	My logfile is open, and a complete log will be posted to our (VOICE) website as soon as possible (after the chat is finished)
<Abraxas>	HINT: If we had enough members from Europe that requested Saturday Afternoon Speakups .... we'd schedule more of them :-)))
<TheSeer>	Abraxas: you know i'm online everytime.. *g*
<TT>	Abraxas: OK! Please, more Saturday Afternoon Speakups!
<TheSeer>	i don't care... hehe
*	Abraxas thinks that TheSeer doesn't EVER sleep :-)))
<TheSeer>	Abraxas: hehe.. well.. not sure ;) but i guess.. sometimes there's something called sleep in my life..
<TT>	I'll try stay here for a litle more time, and then go home and try to connect from there
<Abraxas>	brb .... gotta jump over to winos2 and print something
<TT>	BTW! I finish the installation of Stellar Frontier in a computer for my cousin
<TT>	and this is a very good game... I think I gone buy it for myself
<TT>	Peter: can I ask you something now?
<Peter>	TT; Sure, go ahead!
<TT>	I already sent a mail to you about because I think PMView
<TT>	can incorporate the possibility of mesuaring distances
<TT>	Is this very difficult to implement?
<Peter>	You can already measure *pixel* distances by using the track info dialog.
<Peter>	Isn't this sufficient, or what exactly are you looking for?
<TT>	Yes I no that, but if we can get distance in cm or inchs would be better
<Peter>	Yes. I have planned to add this at some point. What need to be added is:
<TT>	Yes I no that, (This is a typo) I want write: Yes I *know* that,
<Peter>	#1 The possibility to set the preferred unit in all dialogs
<Peter>	#2 The possibility to define the resolution (dpi, pels/meter,...) for the image
<Peter>	#1 requires a lot of work to implement...
<Peter>	PMView v2.0 will not get this feature. Maybe v2.1 will have it. v3.0 _probably_ has it ;-)
<TT>	That would be nice! Sometime ago I had use a program from an university in USA called Image Tool for Win NT that have this feature among other, but PMView is simpler and is for OS/2...
<TT>	BTW, when you expect the realese of version 2.0?
<Peter>	That's hard to say. The help files still need a lot of work... A rough guess is May/June
<freiheit>	!op
<TT>	OK! People I have to go home, or the guard close the building and I have not a bed in the office... I'll try to connect from home
<TT>	I'm gone. Later...
<TheSeer>	cu
<freiheit>	Goodnight TT
<TT>	See in a moment (I hope) freiheit
<TheSeer>	Peter: i just had a first look at a friends system on pmview 2 .. what's the main difference comapred to version 1.x ?
<TheSeer>	i noticed some differences in keyboard-hotkeys, a new open-dialog and it's slower..
<TheSeer>	*g*
*	freiheit wouldn't say there's any single main difference between PMView 1 ans 2.
<Peter>	The File Open dialog, the configurable hot-keys, the new file formats...
<freiheit>	...the added (optional) information display (status bar, image info, etc). :)
<Peter>	PMView v2.0 has a robust, fully object oriented code base that will let me improve it for many years to come...
*	freiheit cheers! :)
<spTim>	peter: do you know that majordomo@pmview.com doesn't work ? majordomo is an unknown user. I already wrote an email to raja but did'nt get a reply
<Peter>	Have you had a look at www.pmview.com/mlist.html ?
<spTim>	Peter: yes, i looked at that page before trying to subscribe the lists
<spTim>	oh
<mandie>	hello
<mandie>	will we every get this right!
<mandie>	Hi Peter and all
<Peter>	According to the page, you should send the message to "butler@pmview.com" ?!
<spTim>	oh, i see..
<Peter>	Hi Judy!
<IX>	Hello Peter!
<freiheit>	Peter, one thing I noticed the other night -- I created an image of 2250x3000 pixels (in Photo>Graphics) and then put it into PMView 2.0 beta 9 for printing. I selected "Fit Resolution" which effectively doubled the size of my image (which is what I wanted) ...
<spTim>	peter: on the german page there is written "majordomo@pmview.com".. I will try butler soon :)
<Peter>	spTim: You're right! The NL pages are not updated yet...
<freiheit>	Image size went up to 4500x6000 which is 7.5 inches x 10 inches at 600dpi ... my margins were letter size with .5 inch all around -- 7.5x10 inch total printable area ... but a very small part at the bottom of the image went over to a 2nd page.
<Peter>	freiheit: Didn't the preview show this? Did't you get the spinbutton ?
<freiheit>	Yes it did, but as far as I can tell it should not have.
<freiheit>	The image size was equal to the printable area.
<Peter>	freiheit: The calculation is done with floating point numbers. This could be caused by a rounding error... You need to use pixels to get a precise result...
<freiheit>	If it's not something within PMView, I'll say that my print driver is Lexmark's 5700 driver v2.513 (the latest).
<Peter>	freiheit: The problem is that 10.00001 is displayed as 10.0 in the dialog... You need to use pixels to get it 100% right.
<freiheit>	Peter, well even switching to pixel units did not work.
<freiheit>	(ie. it did not correct the problem)
<Peter>	freiheit: What is the printable area in pixels ?
<freiheit>	unless I'm doing the math wrong, my image size (4500x6000) was exactly the printable size of the page (4500x6000)
<Peter>	Does it say "Printable area: 4500x6000 pixels" and does the width and height spinbutton say 4500 and 6000 respectively?
<freiheit>	If I selected "Fit Page" the "Image Size (pixels)" at the top of the dialog dropped.
<freiheit>	yes
<freiheit>	well, wait ...
<freiheit>	I'll be right back, I didn't check the "printable area:"
<mandie>	Coana: hi :)
<Coana>	Hello mandie
*	mandie is an avid OS/2 user but is very happy that there is now a win version of pmview!
<freiheit>	alright ...
<freiheit>	Units: Pixels
<freiheit>	all 4 margins say 300
<freiheit>	Printable area: 4508 x 5977
<freiheit>	Image size: 4500 x 6000
<Peter>	freiheit: You see! You don't have 6000 pixels *g*
<freiheit>	Okay, but why don't I? :)
<mandie>	ahhh...pilot error :)
<Peter>	freiheit: Have you tried changing the paper size.
<freiheit>	Well, changing to 8.5x14 certainly would give me more printable space.
<freiheit>	I just don't see where the 7.5" x 10" is becoming 7.51" x 9.96"
<mandie>	Longstaff!!!
<Longstaff>	hiya mandie.....sumthin happened to my ia settings when i switched drives :)
<Peter>	freiheit: This has to do with how the printer driver reports the size to OS/2...
<freiheit>	Alright, so you're saying it is something I should take up with Lexmark?
<Longstaff>	hiya fuzylogic
<Fuzy|ogic>	I'm almost sure Lexmark OS/2 drivers are NT driver ports with band-ades all over them...
<Pliny>	Pliny signing on here, hope I'm not late!
<freiheit>	Fuzy|ogic, they are.
<Peter>	freiheit: When you choose the 7.5"x10" papaer size, what are the minimum margins?
<Fuzy|ogic>	Longstaff: Hi!
<bitbucket>	I missed the issue. I have a Lexmark 7200 and it seems to work great.
<freiheit>	Peter, 0.12" at top, 0.24" at left, 0.27" at right, and 0.47" at bottom are the printer's minimum. 0.5" (which I selected in PMView) is more than all of them.
<Fuzy|ogic>	freiheit and I have the 5700.. It ussually works well too, but it's much faster on Win32 >:(
<bitbucket>	Unfortunately I am here to hear about PMView.
<Peter>	But what are the 7.5" x 10" really?
<freiheit>	I'll take it up with Lexmark and quit hogging the SpeakUp. :)
<IX>	Peter: How will the Windows version save thumbnails?
<Peter>	IX: It uses on-the-fly thumbnails only. (At least for now).
<Peter>	IX: This means that the thumbnails are stored in RAM only.
<bitbucket>	Isn't the 7.5x10 the Executive size. I never did understand all these different sizes and where they came up with these - like A4
<Longstaff>	i think A4 was a european idea originally
<Peter>	bitbucket: A4 is the most used size in Europe... (and the system is easy. An A5 is half an A4 and an A3 is double the size of an A4, etc...)
<bitbucket>	Wow! When I look at paper sizes in the printer driver, there is 8.5x11 and a 7.5x10 setting as well. Just making sure that I was reading the message right on the issue of 7.5x10/
<IX>	Do you have any plans about storing the thumbnails? It does take longer to create the thumnails each time then reading them from a file, right? Is is not possible to store the thumbnails in a hidden file?
<Peter>	IX: Yes, I'm still thinking about doing something like this. The problem is how to manage the thumbnails.
<muttsLEE>	When is V2 slated for release?
<Peter>	If you have a database with thumbnails, there is a need for a lot of maintenance because thumbnails will not be removed when you delete files and directories with othre applications than PMView...
<spTim>	peter: will the windows version cause slower os2 development ? or will it be compiled out of the same source, so that new features will be available for both systems nearly at the same time?
<Peter>	muttsLEE: A rough guess is May/June...
<Peter>	spTim: Both versions use the same source. THe thing that *really* slows down development are the IBM Open Class Libraries that I use. I need to rewrite them for v2.1 ... (The OCL libriaries have already delayed v2.0 with more than 6 months)
<DBM>	Pater: Will V2 be able to acquire multiple images from a scanner for faxing as a multi-page document?
<Peter>	DBM: No. v2.0 does not yet support saving of multi-page files.
<muttsLEE>	Using a broad overview, what additional features do you think warranted upgrading the major release level in V2
<Peter>	A completely new code base. More than 50% of the code is rewritten.
<TT>	OK! I back...
<Peter>	PMView is now implemented in a fullt object oriented manner. (Something that is really needed with a project this large; 10 Mb source code, 350,000 lines...)
<Longstaff>	wow, that's heavyweight
<Fuzy|ogic>	WOW! Mucho Grande..
<muttsLEE>	how much of the code is "interchangeable" with the win version?
<freiheit>	Yeah, but it runs well and does a lot. :)
<Projects>	!op
<Peter>	The File Open dialog has tons of enhancements when you look under the covers. (The thumbnails only require a third of the RAM required by v1.04)
<Fuzy|ogic>	cool
<IX>	Peter: Yes, I know what you mean. I would do it this way: Put each thumbnail that is created at the end of the file. When a file would be deleted, the thumbnail would be deleted from the data file by marking the record as deleted rather than re-organizing the whole file. Then maybe at some interval the data file would be organized and deleted record physically removed. I don't think this would cause much overhead, but then again I am not an expert.
<_Klaus>	Peter: why didn't you realize all these Graphical Fileformats as mmos/2 codecs ?
<Peter>	The file sequencer has read-ahead!
<Peter>	Klaus: SPEED!
<_Klaus>	Peter: and as a bonus... as a mmos2-codec too?
<muttsLEE>	I'm sure you've considered this at some time before, but what is your feeling at including the ability to play MPEGs in PMView?
<Peter>	Klaus: PMView uses it's own I/O routines. Take for isntance the /SHOrtfileRetry option. There are tons of limitations in the mmos2-codec...
<_Klaus>	Peter: ok, i see
<Peter>	muttsLEE: At some point I will add support for animations. However, that is currently low priority. Much higher on the priority list is support for vector formats like CDR, MET and WMF.
<freiheit>	Perhaps a future version (2.1 or 3.0) could have, as a bonus, a Communicator/2 PlugIn to handle the PMView formats (something like the way the Adobe Acrobat Reader works)? :)
*	Longstaff speculates about the feasability of storing an entire thumbnail as an extended attribute
<_Klaus>	Peter: if you include vector routines, you'll make it possible to vectorize bitmaps ??
<spTim>	freiheit: goot idea
<Peter>	Klaus: No. This would be a vector to raster converter.
<TT>	Peter: the ability to read CDR will be very appreciated...
<Peter>	freiheit: If I ever do this, it would have to be a separate product.
<IX>	Longstaff: Neither FAT nor NTFS support extended attributes, only HPFS does.
<DBM>	Peter: Will V2 provide for saving gamma settings for multiple output paths?
<Longstaff>	IX - i'm a warp guy....windoze file formats are kinda outside my scope of reference
<Peter>	DBM: DO you mean in the print dialog?
<Peter>	Longstaff: The OS/2 version stores thumbnails as EAs
<DBM>	Peter: Different printers seem to print darker than others. If you regularly print to more than one printer it would be nice to be able to set up the gamma for each and then select the printer you are going to use when you send the image to the printer.
<Peter>	DBM: I'll have to have a look at this. I think there was a reason for not adding it right away.
<IX>	Longstaff: I see. One of the great thing about OS/2 is the HPFS file system. It is the only PC file system I know of which can attach various information to a file as Extended Attributes. Image vievers for the Windows platform can't do this. If the want to store thumbnails, the have to do it by creating separate data files to store the thumbnails in, which requires more file managing.
<Peter>	IX: NTFS can also store EAs, however Microsoft never made use of this feature...
<IX>	Peter: They better should have. Well, too bad for them.
<Token>	Sorry I'm late -- can anybody give me the PMView news in 25 words or less?
<_Klaus>	Peter: i configured pmView not to show the pics while loading, but on pmView's "fullscreen view" it still takes time to make the window fit the "full screen", could you build in a feature not to show the new picture until EVERYTHING is calculated?
<Longstaff>	i'd hate to be the one who had to try to sync it up
<freiheit>	Token: New version, many new features, great deal, bright future, so go get it! :)
<Token>	Freiheit -- is it available now??
<madodel>	Didn't someone do a review of PMView 2.0 beta somewhere?
<freiheit>	Token, only through the beta mailing list.
<Peter>	Klaus: No. I would need to rewrite a lot for this. THe reason why the image isn't shown, is because that would require double the amount of RAM (The loadad image and the image on screen)
<freiheit>	But v1.05 is generally available. :)
<mandie>	madodel: I believe it was in this month's VOICE newsletter :)
<_Klaus>	Peter: and maybee a cache if you browse through the pictures with shift-pg-down ?
<Peter>	Klaus: PMView v2.0 has read-ahead!
<madodel>	mandie: Yes, maybe that is where I saw it. ;-)
<Token>	Ah -- I am content to wait for the GA version. I've laready got v1.05...it's very nice, tho' I miss the drag'n'drop slideshows of good old JviewPro...
*	Projects wonders if the Voice newsletter editor reads his own newsletter...
<_Klaus>	Peter: i know that it would cost lot's of ram, but it would be nice if you have to look at lots of pics
<IX>	Peter: I have both OS/2 and NT 4.0. I can access HPFS partition from NT by using the HFPS driver included with NT 3.51. Do you know if Windows NT programs can use EAs on HPFS partitions?
<Peter>	Klaus: I guess the read-ahead in v2.0 will help you a lot (as long as you view the image in the sequential order they appear when you press +/-)
<_Klaus>	Peter: looks as if i should download the beta ,-)
<Peter>	IX: My guess is that NT's HPFS driver doesn't support EAs... (but this is only a guess).
<Token>	Peter -- is there any forecast of when the GA will be available? In general terms, that is...
<Peter>	Token: It's very hard to say. The help files still need a lot of work. A rough guess is May/June.
<Token>	Peter -- thanks...that's close enough...
<spTim>	perhaps someone should put this answear into the topic :)
<IX>	Peter: If the driver does suppoert EAs, would you consider supporting storing of thumbnails when using HPFS partitions?
<Longstaff>	answear??? hehe
<Peter>	Token: The OS/2 version is IMHO very stable now. THe Windows version still has a couple of problems.
<Token>	Peter -- I'd be quite happy with just the OS/2 version...[grin]. You can release it anytime you feel ready...
<Peter>	IX: No, because it requires too much work for a solution that still can't be used by most Windows (95/98) users. I need to find another, general solution.
<Peter>	Token: Go to www.pmview.com/mlist.html and join the beta. That gives you access to the latest beta.
<Token>	Peter -- if you insist....[smile].
<DBM>	Peter: I am currently using STI TWAIN drivers. In PMView 1.05 it seems like it takes quite a while for the image to appear in PMView after it is scanned. Will V2 improve this, or do I need to do something with the TWAIN drivers?
*	Projects has a pricing question... is the "for life" deal still on for those of us who've had PMView forever? :)
<Peter>	DBM: This depends on the TWAIN driver. Using CFM TWAIN with v2.0 will show the image progressively (line-by-line) as it is being scanned...
<Peter>	DBM: STi is currently working on a driver that allows for progressive scanning.
<Token>	FP10 is almost done downloading, so I'd better go. Thanks for keeping on with PmView and OS/2 Peter...
<Peter>	Token: You're welcome!
<madodel>	Peter: I don't know if anyone asked this yet, but I have a question emailed to me by Steve Marvin - about the status of GIF-89 (animated gif) supportin PMView.
<Peter>	madodel: PMView does not yet have a frame buffer capable of holding many images. THis will be added in v2.1
<mandie>	swanee!! hi ;)
<Swanee>	Hi mandie, Late again huh?
<madodel>	Peter: thanks
<Fuzy|ogic>	hi swanee
<Swanee>	Hi Fuzy|ogic!
<mandie>	Swanee: just a tad :)
<mandie>	Fuzy!!
<TT>	Humm! Better scanning, the promise of CDR support and the ability to measure for me is good enough! I'll register the version 1.05, very soon...
<Fuzy|ogic>	hi mandie :>
<Swanee>	mandie: I'm still getting caught up. I may be quiet for just a bit yet.
<mandie>	Swanee: that will be different :)
<Projects>	Swanee: you got out of the 19th hole ok? :)
<Swanee>	mandie: lol
<bitbucket>	May I ask the Guest's full name?
<Swanee>	Projects: Our course is always the last to open around here. April 1st is the opener. THEN the 19th hole will get a workout. :-)
<Swanee>	brb
<Projects>	hehehe
<Projects>	bitbucket: it's in the topic :)
<_Klaus>	Peter: is there a "poster-mode" in pmView2.0? (print a single bitmap on a x b pages) ?
<TT>	Peter: can you tell us, in simple words what is new in version 2.0?
<Peter>	Klaus: Yes. And that's in v1.x as well ;-)
<Redoaks>	Hello everyone-this is my first run at IRC so I'm going to lurk a while-you all seem to know each other
<freiheit>	TT, the February VOICE Newsletter has a review of PMView 2.0 if you'd like to check that out (www.os2voice.org)
*	Projects looks at Swanee... Nope, no clue who that guy is
<Projects>	:)
<Peter>	TT: There are roughly 100 new things... Most noticably the improved File Open dialog, the new Print dialog, read-ahead, configurable hot-keys, new file formats, etc, etc.
<TT>	freiheit: thanks I'll
<TT>	Peter: thanks.
<freiheit>	And there will be an addendum in the March Newsletter. :)
<Projects>	Peter: what about pricing for those of us who've had PMView forever?
<freiheit>	Thanks to Peter's explanations. :)
<TT>	freiheit: Oh! More good things, I guess...
<spTim>	peter: i've got a problem with v1.04 and cfm 5.1. if a acquire an picture directly, it normally doesn't appear in pmview (only very few times it works). if i use the clipboard, it always works fine. did i missed something in the docs ? i think it's my faul... :)
<Peter>	Projects: The OS/2 version upgrade is free if you have a current license.
<Peter>	spTim: PMVIew v2.0 solves this completely. (TWAIN is rewritten in v2.0)
<Projects>	Peter: so the "for life" thing is going to stick with us? :)
*	madodel has had PMView licensed for a long time, looks like it was a real good investment. :-)
*	Projects too :)
<IX>	Peter: If I register now, will I get this "for life" deal?
<Peter>	IX: Yes!
*	madodel would be willing to pay an upgrade fee just to keep PMView for OS/2 going.
<Peter>	Projects: Yes. If you have a current PMView license, you'll never need to pay for an OS/2 upgrade.
<TT>	"for life" I think this policy is not very for for Peter...
*	freiheit will pay an upgrade fee when he purchases a 2nd license for the BeOS version of PMView (hint hint). :)
*	Longstaff would like to register.....what's the best method - is there a url?
<Fuzy|ogic>	bmt
<madodel>	Speaking of that will there ever be a Linux version also?
<Projects>	Peter: thanks... though I tend to agree with madodel about the upgrade pricing (not like I'm trying to change your mind or anything... :>)
<spTim>	Longstaff: www.bmtmicro.com
<Peter>	TT: That's why it changes with v2.0. Licenses sold after the release of v2.0 will no longer be life-time licenses. No WIndows licenses are life-time.
<Peter>	madodel: Yes. I will start working on a BeOS and Linux version once v2.0 is out the door.
<TT>	Peter: AH! This is better (for you of course...)
<Peter>	Longstaff: www.pmview.com , follow the "Secure order" link.
<spTim>	cool :) beos os a very nice os :)
<Longstaff>	thank you peter.....nice doin' business with you :)
<IX>	Peter: Okay, thanks. Although I have been using PMView since the beginning, I have not yet registered (shame on me!). I do not live in the US (I live in Iceland, for those of you interested) and only recently got myself a credit card. So I can register now without the trouble of sending a money order.
<Fuzy|ogic>	BeOS yes, Linux can do for itself... I don't see the fascination...
<mandie>	Peter: thanks for joining us this evening :)
<TT>	spTim: So is OS/2, so is OS/2!
<_Klaus>	Peter: is there any chance to save thumbs if you copy the pictures from hd to CD? (the iso-filesystem dosn't know ea's) ?
<spTim>	tt: certainly i know :)
<Peter>	mandie: You're welcome! It's nice to be here!
*	mandie does think Peter should reconsider pricing for the new version....man does not live by old licenses alone :)
<RLD>	Peter: well I've been a happy user of the os/2 version for quite some time... and I'm happy that you will allow us early loyal ones a lifetime; I feel its only fair to pay you for eaxh opsys that I would use, and will do so when you set the price
<Peter>	Klaus: PMView v2.0 supports on-the-fly thubnails. This lets you view thumbnails, although not as fast as if they were stored on the CD.
<mandie>	RLD: agreed
<TT>	People, thank you all for this chat! Time to sleep...
<mandie>	TT: bye
<Swanee>	Nite TT
<spTim>	tt: nice dreams :)
<Peter>	Bye TT
<TT>	And thank you Peter, for your program.
<_Klaus>	Peter: don't you think that on the fly thumbnails could be slow on CD-ROMs?
<TT>	Bye, now...
<SACarter>	Hi all, I've been lurking. I've checked the TWAIN info on the PMView web site and have a question...
<Peter>	Klaus: That depends. I will provide an alternative solution, but if it will make v2.0 is another question (it may have to wait for v2.1).
<SACarter>	...has anyone tried to use TWAIN to import photos directly into PMView from a digital camera?
<_Klaus>	Peter: ok ,-)... and is there a way to create thumbnails with pmView recoursively ?
<madodel>	do any of the OS/2 twain drivers support a digital camera?
<spTim>	SACarter: is there a twain driver for project o cameras ? twain for digicam sounds nice :)
<SACarter>	Beats me. :-) I don't know much about TWAIN, and don't know if it cares whether the device is a scanner or a camera.
<Peter>	Klaus: No. I tried to add this, btu it would have slowed down the general performance of the FOC. Are you aware that you simply can enable automatic thumbnailing and then quickly "walk through" all directories you want thumbnailed?
<SACarter>	Guess I need to do some more homework. I'll check with some of the TWAIN developers.
<Redoaks>	SACarter-I use a Kodak DC220 with DCITU from BMT-and open it for viewing or printing with PMView
<SACarter>	Redoaks: Dig it. I've got a Kodak DC210A.
<freiheit>	There is the Digital Camera Image Transfer Utility -- I have no idea if that's the same thing you're looking for.
<_Klaus>	Peter: yes, i know this... but a "create recursive thumbs" as a option in the popup menu of a directory would be nice
<SACarter>	(Off to BMT for DCITU.)
<Peter>	All: The only makers of TWAIN drivers for OS/2 are CFM and STi. Afaik, neither of them has camera drivers.
<IX>	Peter: I encourage you to try to resolve this thumbnails storing problem, as the thumbnails are, at least in my case, one of the top reasons I like PMView so much.
<freiheit>	There's also SANE -- oh, speaking of which -- is there any chance of using SANE with PMView?
<Peter>	Klaus: Because of the "Creating thumbnail" feedback, this is not feasible. It will slow
<SACarter>	Peter: I see. Thanks.
<_Klaus>	Peter: A "view all subdirs in one virtual dir" would be nice too sometimes if you're searching a pic on a cd-rom and can't remember the folder-name ,-)
<Redoaks>	Peter: Your PMView is really fast and efficient with digital photos,and a lifesaver since my OS/2 viewer locks when I try to use it.
<Swanee>	I assume the thumbnails are stored in the bitmap ea's. Can I just strip them with "eabrowse" to get rid of a bunch that I don't want anymore? (to save space on a small FAT data partition) Or can that be a suggestion for future builds.
<Peter>	Klaus: Have a look at www.pmview.com/us/img/v2filedlg.gif
<SACarter>	What's SANE? Another TWAIN implementation?
<spTim>	Swanee: there is a thumbnaildelete in the popup many in the 1.0x file dialog
<freiheit>	SACarter, yes it is. Free open-source TWAIN ported from Linux.
<Swanee>	spTim: hmmm... I didn't know that. I'll have to take a peek. Thanks.
<spTim>	peter: is it possible to use xfile with pmview 2.0 ?
<Peter>	freiheit: With the birth of a Linux version you will inevitably get SANE support ;-)
<Redoaks>	SACarter: I tried SANE, but found the PMView-CFMtwain bundle unbeatable
<freiheit>	Peter, ahh, heehee.
<Swanee>	spTim: hehe, how could I have missed it. Especially as much as I have used it lately. :-)
<Lardog>	PMView-CFMtwain bundle: is this twain driver good for Epson scanners?
<freiheit>	Lardog, you can check the CFM site for a list of what scanners it works with. Same with the STI TWAIN driver and their site.
<spTim>	Lardog: see www.cfm.de
<Lardog>	ok
<SACarter>	Readoaks, freihet: Good to know. Thanks.
<freiheit>	http://www.cfm.de/f_products_start.htm <-- CFM
<freiheit>	http://www.stiscan.com <-- STI
<Redoaks>	Lardog: I had to get a Umax because the Epsons listed as supported were unavaiable- but you can visit the CFM website for a list of all supported scanners
<madodel>	STI sells a bundle of their driver with an epson scanner
<Lardog>	this is great info, thank you
<Swanee>	Peter: Is there any way to get onto the beta list. I have tried a couple of times but have had no response. I suspect it has to do with not having my name "on the books" as a registered user yet. I bought PmView at WarpStock and I wonder if my info didn't make the transition from Chicago to Wilmington to you.
<Peter>	spTim: There are no known issues with xfile. However, PMView uses it's own file open dialog, and xfile will not affect it.
<Peter>	Swanee: It's Raja's job to handle this. Have you e-mailed him at raja@pmview.com ?
<Swanee>	Peter: A couple of times. (Dec and Jan)
<Peter>	Swanee: Sigh!...
<Swanee>	Peter: I know, I can try again though but I just figured I'd get 2.0 when it came out. :-)
<Peter>	Swanee: Please e-mail him again.
<Swanee>	OK, what is the expected time frame for the 2.0 release "just in case"
<freiheit>	Swanee, May/June
<freiheit>	:)
<freiheit>	Okay, it's going in the topic this time! *lol*
<Swanee>	I guess I *will* try again. I'd like to see it before May/June :-)
<Projects>	freiheit: he didn't say what year!
<Redoaks>	Peter: I still wonder, if demands warrant, what are the chances of getting OCR support for PMView as a separate purchase?
<Projects>	:)
<freiheit>	LOL, okay I assumed, sorry.
<Fuzy|ogic>	OCR is no small upgrade...
<Projects>	hehehe
<Swanee>	Redoaks: Good thinking...
<Peter>	Redoaks: OCR requires *years* of developement. Or, I could probably buy the code somewhere for US $100,000 or so ;-)
<Redoaks>	Peter & all: I'm good for at least two copies-one for me & one for the business. Price is no object :-)
<Peter>	Redoaks: Recognita is perhaps your best bet...
<Longstaff>	most OCR code i've seen doesn't work so hot :(
<madodel>	It's expensive and abandoned is it not?
<spTim>	recognita isn't available anymore :-(
<Fuzy|ogic>	Most OCR only works with certain fonts I think...
<Peter>	spTim: I know.
<Redoaks>	Longstaff: That is true-which is why I'd like to see someone like Peter try it.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I'm not even sure how OCR works...
<Peter>	Fuzy|ogic: Fuzzy logic!
<spTim>	there is an ocr software "Textflow Batch OCR for OS2" http://www.stiscan.com/textflow.html
<Fuzy|ogic>	Peter: yeah, I know... But I'm only familiar with the math on paper :)
<spTim>	I don't know anything about textflow....
<Redoaks>	If I recall Textflow is Real expensive, a large commercial program.
<Peter>	Fuzy|ogic: I think the main key is "pattern recognition"
<madodel>	Really the only in-expensive OCR solution for OS/2 is Faxworks pro, and it is not very good at all
<Projects>	madodel: c'mon, it's great. You put text in, you get text out :p
<freiheit>	There's also SOCR which is free (I think) but my tests with it were ... less than impressive. But that was like a year ago, so it may have changed now.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Yeah, but It's got to be murder getting it to work with different font sizes...
<madodel>	Oh, yeah, you were supposed to do a review of that
<Peter>	Theo! Hi! (Theo=Thomas Belmer who translates PMView to German)
<Theo>	Hi Peter
<freiheit>	Woohoo! Welcome Theo.
<Theo>	I just listend because I didn't found the subject of discussion. :-)
<mandie>	freiheit: really!
<mandie>	Theo: Welcommen :)
<Theo>	Hi all
<mandie>	probably misspelled :)
<freiheit>	mandie, really what?
<freiheit>	Isn't it wilkommen?
<mandie>	that's it! :)
*	freiheit isn't sure, doesn't read/write/speak German.
<freiheit>	Despite the nickname. :)
<mandie>	freiheit: apparently I don't either :)
<mandie>	Timur: hiya :)
<chmims>	Freiheit should try changing his attributes :-)
*	Longstaff likea a lowenbrau now and then :)
<TimurTabi>	Hello
<Peter>	Hi Timur!
<spTim>	hi timur
<_Klaus>	Theo: will you translate pmView 2.0 also to german ?
<Theo>	Of course.
*	Projects likes a lowerbra now and then too
<Projects>	whoops
<freiheit>	Hmm, how about translating Papyrus (word processor) _from_ German to English? :)
<_Klaus>	Theo: that's what i wanted to hear .-)
<Pliny>	I'll soon be signing off. Thank you Peter for your insights and time. With the others, I'll be looking forward to 2.0
<mandie>	Pliny: thx for coming tonight :)
<freiheit>	Thanks for joining us, Pliny. :)
<IX>	Well, gotta get some sleep now. Thanks for the chat Peter, but most of all, thanks for PMView!
<Redoaks>	I'll soon be quitting also-Peter-thanks for a great program and even greater support.
<Peter>	You're welcome!
<Redoaks>	Bye all-thanks for the time
<Swanee>	Bye Redoaks
<freiheit>	Thanks for coming, Redoaks.
<Peter>	Bye!
<TimurTabi>	Gee, I just got here, and everyone's leaving?
<freiheit>	heh
<spTim>	:)
<Theo>	The same happened to me... :-(
<Swanee>	TimurTabi: Happens to me all the time at parties. I don't know what it is though...
<Peter>	:-)
<spTim>	i've to go now (just kiddin')
<TimurTabi>	I assume the speakup is pretty much over - did anyone ask about vector image support, like OS/2 metafiles?
<Swanee>	TimurTabi: Fire away Timur...
<Peter>	Timur: Not in v2.0 yet, but it is high up on the priority list
<TimurTabi>	will it be supported before 2.0 goes GA?
<Theo>	It's pity that this is not a mailing list using digest mode. What was going on? :-)
<Peter>	Timur: No
<madodel>	Theo: there will be a log at the VOICE web site tomorrow
<TimurTabi>	OK. I have a large document in DeScribe that I want to convert to HTML, but all of the drawings can only be exported in OS/2 Metafile format (BMP exports don't work well enough).
<TimurTabi>	So I've been looking for a tool that can easily handle OS/2 Metafiles.
<madodel>	http://www.os2voice.org
<Theo>	madoedel: I know, it was only a joke.
<_Klaus>	TimurTabi: try StarOffice 5.0
<freiheit>	Before this SpeakUp closes, I'd like to remind everyone to check out the VOICE Events Calendar for future meetings, including our next SpeakUp on April 5. Our guest(s) will be Sundial Systems and the topic will be their new/forthcoming product: Rover Pack.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Timur: easy, do a screen capture of the images and convert the captures to whatever...
<mandie>	We'll need to have Peter return after he releases 2.0 :)
<Peter>	mandie: Thanks for the invitation! I'll be back! ;-)
<_Klaus>	Peter: aah, one more thing, could you include a "show mouse" feature for screen capturing?
<freiheit>	mandie, I agree! Have a PMView 2.1 pre-release SpeakUp. :)
<mandie>	Gdreat!! :)
<freiheit>	_Klaus, that's already in PMView 2.0.
<Peter>	Klaus: This feature is in v2.0
<_Klaus>	freiheit: pmView 2.0 will be so perfect, i'm affraid there's not much to talk in the next speakup ;-))
<Theo>	...and it works fine. I already tried it some times.
<freiheit>	As well as triggering screen capture with hotkeys.
<TimurTabi>	wow, Star Office does import Metafiles
<spTim>	peter: what about adding a merge bitmap feature ? (putting a gif with transparent background onto a picture) ?
<mandie>	Timur: is it about time for another win32 project speakup?
<spTim>	or a soundcard speakup :)
<TimurTabi>	mandie: well, the situation is complicated now. Two parties are interested in taking the project - one for free, and for purchase for their own private commercial use.
<mandie>	Timur: ok, let me know if/when the time is right
<Fuzy|ogic>	netlabs said win32os2 is being absorbed into EverBlue...
<Peter>	spTim: This requires "mask" support. It will have to wait for a future version.
<mandie>	spTim: that's a good idea...any suggestions for speakers?
<spTim>	mandie: timur :)
<mandie>	We just had the Crystal speakup
<freiheit>	Peter, well please put me on the list of people who would like that "mask" support. :)
<TimurTabi>	Star Office's metafile support is buggy.
<mandie>	spTim :)
<spTim>	TimurTabi: staroffice is buggy, not only it's metafile support...
<RLD>	everblue?
<TimurTabi>	rld: look at the win32os2 page
<freiheit>	And still for getting a Win3.1 .cur file converted to OS/2 .ptr format without turning the transparent background to black. :)
<Theo>	StarOffice is buggy on every platform
<RLD>	okies, been a while since I was there..
*	Swanee says ditto to "mask" support
<_Klaus>	Theo: these bugs are features, it's part of the Micro$oft Office feelin' ;)
<RLD>	freiheit: I had that prob trying to covert os/2 ico to win format
<Swanee>	_Klaus: LOL
<freiheit>	ROTFL
<Theo>	Klaus: Micro$oft has *much* more bugs.
<RLD>	never could get it transparent but was able to eventually get it to white
<Peter>	freiheit: This really ought to work in v2.0. I think this is a bug. I'll have to take a look at it.
<_Klaus>	Theo: that's right, the Office-emulation is not quite perfect, but they are working on it ,-)))
<RLD>	friggin winnows has no icon editor now...
<freiheit>	Peter, well I haven't tried it in beta 9. Last time I tried was, I think, beta 7 and it wound up locking PMView -- had to forcibly kill it.
<freiheit>	I'll try again and get back to you.
<madodel>	it must be quite a shock for win lusers to see a port of an OS/2 program, something that can actually work unlike the crappy windows apps that are ported to OS/2.
<RLD>	lol
<Peter>	freiheit: You have to do the conversion in the FOC with the Convert to
<freiheit>	Alright. Will do.
<Peter>	freiheit: Be warned, I think the bug's still there ;-)
<freiheit>	That's why I said I'd try it and get back to you. :)
<Theo>	There's at least one thing I would be interested in: What's about PMView's online help? (This question is for all except You, Peter :-)
<freiheit>	I won't try it just yet, just in case. :)
<_Klaus>	Theo: pmView is so easy to use... i've never used the online help
<Theo>	There have been some complaints about the windows implementation...
<Swanee>	Theo: I wouldn't know about anything "windows" :-)
<Theo>	I see. :-)
<Swanee>	I have used it to get explainations on some choices in dialogs when using filters etc.
<Swanee>	Theo: After writing alot of hlp files myself, I think you'll find that no matter how hard you try to break it down and simplify it, there will always be those that will not understand.
<Lardog>	I would complain too if I had to run a good program in winduhs
<Peter>	Swanee: I think Theo means that the Windows users complain amout the non-microsoftish look of the help on PMView v2.0 for WIndows...
<mandie>	for those that do need to use windoze...I think they can be grateful for pmview!
*	mandie is
<Theo>	Yes, thanks. That was exactly what I meant.
<_Klaus>	Theo: maybee you should include more pics in the online help, windows-users don't like to read a lot (at least the ones i know)
<Lardog>	they can read?
<Swanee>	Oh, is it an inf file and uses the windows inf viewer or did you do your own help format.
<Longstaff>	a lot of windoze users have difficulty with words of more than one syllabyle
<Theo>	Klaus: Yeah, I know. But this is what I usually hate in windows help files.
<Peter>	:-D
*	freiheit notes that Longstaff misspelled syllable.
*	freiheit walks away, whistling.
<mandie>	LOL
<Swanee>	Peter: That brings up another question. Have you ever inspected the way the IPFC compiler compresses BMP files. It's amazing!
<Swanee>	Size wise I mean
<Peter>	Well, it's 5:30 AM here. The bed bug bites...
<freiheit>	Okay, well I'm going to head out now. This has been a great (and long!) SpeakUp and I would very much like to thank Peter Nielsen for his support (and his insightful comments on my review of PMView :)) and also thank you for joining us tonight.
<RLD>	nite Peter and thanks for staying with OS/2 we all appreciate it
<Swanee>	Peter: Thanks for being with us. :-)
<mandie>	Peter: Once again, thank you for coming tonight and we look forward to another visit in the very near future :)
<SACarter>	Peter, thanks for PMView and for taking the time today.
<spTim>	good nite, peter, thank you very much!
<DBM>	Peter: Thanks for a great product.
<freiheit>	There will be a log of this entire SpeakUp posted to the VOICE website (www.os2voice.org) sometime tomorrow for those who came in "late" (it started early, so don't feel bad :))
<_Klaus>	Peter: thanks
<Theo>	Good night.
<Swanee>	Peter: I'll try the beta list again but might have to write to you later if I can't get through OK?
<Swanee>	:)
<mandie>	How do ppl feel about the earlier start time?
<Lardog>	cu peter, thanks for the product
<_Klaus>	Theo: danke fuer die grossartige uebersetzung (hab' gerade mal in die onlinehilfe hineingeschnuppert ,-)
<Peter>	Good night all! Thanks for your support and see you again soon!
<Swanee>	mandie: I completely forgot that it was earlier today...
<spTim>	mandie: good idea :)
<mandie>	Swanee: suuuuuuuure :)
<Peter>	Swanee: Ok!
<mandie>	spTim: we may want to alternate the times...one Mon early and second usual time
<Swanee>	Thanks Peter. Good night!
<Swanee>	mandie: Actually I didn't realize HOW late I was until just now. I DO remember seeing the time change but forgot about it. :-(
<RLD>	g'nite everyone....
<mandie>	Swanee: bet you didn't forget to polish that 9 iron :)
<Swanee>	Nite RLD
<Swanee>	mandie: hehe, I haven't started golfing yet this year. (very much) I went out of town a couple of weeks ago for a little but my course doesn't open for a couple of days yet.
<Lardog>	goodnight all, thanks for making this possible
<mandie>	Lardog: g'nite :)
<Swanee>	Nite Lardog
<mandie>	Swanee: supposed to be 69 here Thursday :)
<Theo>	Lardog: Good night.
<Swanee>	mandie: LOL DON'T TALK LIKE THAT!
<Lardog>	|-)
<Theo>	Hehe... what a great leaving. :-9
<mandie>	LOL
<Swanee>	Theo: It would be nicer if it said OS/2 Warp 5
*	Swanee is looking forward to getting everything together for WarpStock 99
<Theo>	Swanee: You're right, but I'm not the one that can decide this. :-(
<Longstaff>	yeah, when do tickets go onsale
<Swanee>	Theo: I wish you or I could
<Theo>	Yeah.
<Swanee>	Longstaff: Not sure yet but I'm sure it won't be too long
<Theo>	But only *probably*. :-(
<Swanee>	Has SCOUG been getting together lately here?
<mandie>	Swanee: yes, but they don't start until 10 EST
<mandie>	so announce away :)
<Swanee>	mandie: But what shall I say? :)
<mandie>	SCOUG holds a help chat in #SCOUG at 10 p.m. EST for starters :)
<Swanee>	OK I'll do that...
<Swanee>	SCOUG holds a help chat in #SCOUG at 10 p.m. EST
<Swanee>	hehe
<mandie>	LOL
<Swanee>	Sector!!!! Where have you been?
<Sector>	Oh lost
<Swanee>	We missed you tonight.
<Sector>	But I found my way
<madodel>	hey Sector
<madodel>	ù
<Swanee>	haha, here we go again...
*	Sector grumbles
*	Swanee is wondering which ascii code he patented...
<Swanee>	Oh ²eah, I remember now...
<Swanee>	madodel: Å can have this one. I think it is open.
<madodel>	Sector: I finally tried MOTE on my #9 128-2 card and I get the map now, so it must be a GRADD related problem.
<madodel>	so is
<Sector>	About time you got one
<madodel>	Is there a middle finger salute oneù
<Swanee>	Sector: hehe, are we grumbling? I thought ù was "open source"
*	Sector pings madodel to death
<madodel>	Didn't bill gates invent ASCIIù
*	Sector took it out of "open source"
<Swanee>	madodel: PaaLeeeze...
<Theo>	I need to go now too. Good night.
*	spTim too
<madodel>	He invented BoB and the dancing paper clip, that I'm sure of. look at how lucky all those winDOS users are. Especially today with their mailissa. he invented the virus too I guess.
<Swanee>	Sector: Oh, going proprietary huhù It's been done before I guess so ²ou won't be the first to do it.
<spTim>	nite everybody
<Swanee>	Nite Theo
<Swanee>	spTim: Nite
<mandie>	nice to see some of our friends in Europe here tonight :)
<Swanee>	madodel: You're right. Bob was the height of acheivement too. :)
<madodel>	See he didn't steal everything.
<Sector>	Bob was modeled after bill gates...
<madodel>	Should have called it BooB
<Swanee>	madodel: That is one thing that bugs win users if you get into a disscussion with them. Just bring up Bob.
<Swanee>	Innovation? You mean like BOB?
<madodel>	I heard that the unsold copies numbered in the millions and that they had to dispose of them in a land fill. Couldn't even put them on the bargain bin.
<madodel>	I guess even win lusers aren't that dumb
*	Sector doubts they could have given em away
*	Sector wouldn't bet on that one...
<Swanee>	madodel: HAHAHA, I hope that landfill doesn't leak into the earth and pollute the underlaying water and minerals. :-)
<Swanee>	I would think that BG would have kept afew boxes to put on his chair so he looks like an adult at board meetings
<Sector>	Wouldn't help
<Swanee>	Hi StevenL
<StevenL>	Hi there.
<Swanee>	Sector: It would make him appear taller anyways. :-)
<trixer>	evening
<Swanee>	Hi trixer
<trixer>	this is off topic...but I'm desperate
<Swanee>	trixer: You can be desparate with us.
<madodel>	sorry this isn't a sex channel
<trixer>	I need a tutorial on regex....I'm rusty
*	Sector hasn't seen a desperate trixer before
<Swanee>	madodel: LOL
<Sector>	madodel: Well, he did say it was off topic
<trixer>	regex == regular expressions in perl
<trixer>	actually the regex library
<Swanee>	Sector: You mean we haven't covered sex yet tonight?
<trixer>	no programmers here?
<Sector>	Well, there was that game speakup previously
*	Sector is a bit rusty on Perl, (haven't used it lately either).
<Swanee>	trixer: No sprecken ze regex. Rexx maybe...
<StevenL>	grep .*
<trixer>	I have a script that adds frontpage extensions to an apache website and I'm not sure I got it right
<trixer>	anyone wanna volunteer?
<trixer>	:>
<StevenL>	For what?
*	Sector sees Swanee take a step forward
<Swanee>	Sector: Speaking of games... Has anyone done a "Strip Poker" for OS/2? You know, play until the Warp 4 box is unwrapped?
<trixer>	to take a look at the script and see if there are any errors?
<Swanee>	Sector: You would play until you got it down to it's cd.
<Sector>	Swanee: Then what happensù
<Swanee>	Sector: Install baby! hehe
<Sector>	That would be worth it!
<Swanee>	That might make a good online press release. Play poker to reveal your new app a little at a time. :)
<Swanee>	With music of course. (the stripper or whatever that song is called)
*	Swanee is going off the deep end now
<Sector>	Try that with something else and it would be: "Can you get it unwrapped before it crashes?"
<Swanee>	It would be funny though
<Swanee>	hehe
<Swanee>	New thing, unreleased, try this http://www.fm-net.com/pillarsoft/pub/dtb.zip
<madodel>	Swanee: cool, but the file list doesn't look like it's integrated into the window. Also there is no way to move the window.
<Swanee>	madodel: Can you explain that a bit better for me?
<Swanee>	I know there is no way to move the window yet and I also have to do some tweaks to make it appear in the window list.
<madodel>	The file list is up against the right hand corner, and part of an empty window frame appears behind it
<madodel>	I can send you a screen capture that might show it better then I can explain
*	Sector thinks Swanee has framed madodel
<Swanee>	madodel: Can you do a screen shot of it and tell me your resloution? I haven't tested it at all at other resolutions yet
<Swanee>	madodel: Yeah, that would be great Mark
<madodel>	I'm at 1600x1200x64k on an Elsa winner/Office 2000
<madodel>	Gee, I think I'll use PMView. :-)
<Swanee>	Wow, a 1600 dude :)
<Swanee>	madodel: PmView, what's that? hehe Great for screenshots huh.
*	trixer had a hard enough time getting warp to do more than 16 colors on his poor ol' ATI Mach64
<trixer>	:>
<Swanee>	I did it in 1024x768x65k and haven't tried any others yet.
*	Sector though madodel was using 1280x1024
<madodel>	sector that is what the server runs, my other 3 pc's are now at 1600x1200
*	Sector uses 1600x1200x65536, 800x600x65536, 1024x768x256 depending on which computer
<Swanee>	Sector: He's a Renaissance man. :) (I had to look that one up for spelling)
<Swanee>	Sector is a Renaissance man too!
*	Sector bases it on what the highest the video card and monitor will agree on
<mandie>	well, I can see I'm going to need to increase my resolution!
*	Sector increases mandie's resolution
<mandie>	:)
<Swanee>	mandie: You never keep your resolutions anyways do you? :)
<mandie>	nope, that's why there are "New Year's" :)
<Swanee>	Sector: She's pretty resolute though.
*	Swanee knows from experience
<Sector>	But you recycle them every "New Year" though right?
<mandie>	riiiiight, waste not, want not :)
<Swanee>	Oh-oh we lost Mark
<Sector>	Maybe he lost some resolution...
<Swanee>	I sure won't make that fashion mistake then. I'm staying at 1024
<mandie>	hehe
<Swanee>	I think my monitor may only go to 1280 anyways
*	Sector slips a resolution virus into Swanee's computer that changes it every 5 seconds
<Swanee>	Sector: Won't happen on OS/2. I wish it could though. That is something I would have thought they could have done but then what do I know.
<Sector>	Ok, then I'll modify it to just change your usable desktop space
<Swanee>	Now THAT might just work :)
<Swanee>	One other thing... (clicking my heels) I wish for a single click INF format.
<Sector>	What, no varietyù
<Swanee>	Variety may be the spice of life but I still want single click hypertext paging in INF files.
<Swanee>	:)
<trixer>	night all
<Sector>	Getting lazy?
<Sector>	Good night
*	trixer is away: [thinking deeply] (l:on, p:off)
<Swanee>	INF is actually a great format were it not for this limitation
<StevenL>	We can dream about an INF viewer update.
<Sector>	Give it to th3e programming sig
<Swanee>	StevenL: I hope that guy can continue to work on it. It would be nice to see
<StevenL>	Actually, the INF format is fully extensible. You can create your own DLL's to do additional control.
<StevenL>	I forget who it was, but I evaluated a demo of something and the ISV had added a DLL so that the INF remembered it's window position and size. Pretty nice.
<Swanee>	Oh, the other thing... We need to be able to highlight text and "copy to clipboard" I think the guy that is working on the inf viewer is wanting to do that.
<Swanee>	StevenL: It can do alot of things that I never imagined.
<Swanee>	Hi madodel
<Sector>	Welcome back
<mandie>	use vipf to view inf files and you will be able to copy/paste
<StevenL>	URL please?
<Swanee>	Reading the help file is pretty interesting but you'd really have to get to know it to use it all.
<mandie>	hmm..let me see if it gives one
<madodel>	Swanee: I opened the Elsa Resolution Manager and my system froze. :-P
<Swanee>	madodel: I figured something must have happened. :(
<mandie>	not in the file...it's probably on hobbes
<Sector>	Sounds like you need some antifreeze
<StevenL>	I'll look...
<Sector>	Look for some antifreeze for madodel while your there
<Swanee>	ftp://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/os2/util/browser/vipf.zip
<StevenL>	Here it is: vipf.zip 40944 1995/01/30 Text-mode .INF-file viewer (not 100% complete
<Swanee>	Got it Mark... I need to use absolute positioning. Can I have you try it again when I get it changed?
<madodel>	sure
<Swanee>	OK I'll let you know. I may have it done tonight or tomorrow.
<madodel>	I see Adrian posted his message on c.o.o.announce, so I guess it is public material.
<mandie>	madodel: what's that?
<madodel>	mandie: it's about the win32-OS/2 project reviving
<mandie>	ah, ok
<madodel>	I forwarded the announcement to you
<mandie>	right
<mandie>	I think I'll stick to my current resolution!
<Sector>	Maybe you should let Mark borrow itù
<mandie>	no doubt :)
<Swanee>	You suppose he tried his "Elsa Resolution Manager" again? I had some kind of problem back in Jan or Feb that took me down a few times and never did figure out what it was. I changed all kinds of things and it has subsided but I still don't know why it happened in the first palce.
<StevenL>	Am I still here?
<Sector>	Not any more...
<Sector>	Hmmm, everybody got typingitistù
<mandie>	nytol :)
<Sector>	It's getting lonely in here