VOICE - General Meeting for 2004-07-03
12:06:10 <eCSNL> This meeting in now in session.
* eCSNL hits the virtual hammer on the table
* eCSNL asks the secretary to start the logging
<wdl> Done / doing...
<eCSNL> Well the first thingy I did was change the old annouchment
<eCSNL> about how to get onto the #voice channel.
<eCSNL> It now lists the link to the Java applet
<eCSNL> and a link for Mozilla users.
<eCSNL> Nobody can complain that they can't get onto IRC :-)
<wdl> Have you tested those links? They DO work?
<eCSNL> Of course I tested those links..
<wdl> Thanks. Just checking...
<KenKrchnr> irc.webbnet.info would be better for the irc.fyrelizard.com one :-)
<eCSNL> ?
<KenKrchnr> irc.webbnet.info replaces the (temporary) fyrelizrd address
<BillG> Well it seems to work :-)
<KenKrchnr> Yes, but that is an old ip that may disappear any day
<BillG> Oke got to leave still need to patch some security holes in our browser folks :-(
<eCSNL> Oke note taken
<eCSNL> thanks KenKrchnr
<eCSNL> Next item is the firewire speakup
<eCSNL> I have never realy quickly received an email
<eCSNL> from Robert Henschel
<eCSNL> or Adriaan Geschwend.
<eCSNL> For Robert Henschell the dates I set for the speakup
<eCSNL> where no problem.
<eCSNL> But the second date I set (can't remeber which one :-) )
<eCSNL> was not a good date for Adriaan Geschwend.
<eCSNL> I need to lookup the email again and get back to Adriaan on this.
<eCSNL> I spoke with Adriaan via IRC somewhere this week.
<eCSNL> So I will get back to that next meeting
<eCSNL> But I gues
<eCSNL> Adriaan and Robert Henschell should both be present.
<eCSNL> I just want to keep you posted so you know I'm working on it.
<eCSNL> I have also asked Peter Koller to see if he would be interested in a VOICE speakup.
<eCSNL> He is not yet interested. He is on a not very reliable ISDN connection.
<eCSNL> And he is still working on maul publisher and thinks he still needs about half a year
<eCSNL> So he is noted on the agenda :-)
<eCSNL> Is there anybody else here who knows somebody who might be interested in a speakup ?
<eCSNL> Hello Marc
<MADeCSSMP> hell Roderic ;-)
<MADeCSSMP> uh Hello that is
<eCSNL> <eCSNL> Is there anybody else here who knows somebody who might be interested in a speakup ?
* eCSNL takes of his hat as Liason Officer and puts on his president hat
<eCSNL> Section B)
<eCSNL> A big agenda item.
<eCSNL> I have given my self the task and have already started writing on an article
<eCSNL> for VOICE.
<eCSNL> newsletter.
<eCSNL> Point B2 is part of the discssion I want to have right now.
<eCSNL> Last meeting there was as far as I could remeber a difference of opion
<eCSNL> if the elections should he held with the old or new VOICE Bylaws.
<eCSNL> What I'm personaly in favor of
<eCSNL> is to change the bylaws first
<eCSNL> so a backup accounted can be introduced who is elected by the VOICE members
<eCSNL> In this case it would be Piet van Zon (unless somebody else steps forward)
<eCSNL> And then hold elections.
<eCSNL> Is anybody against this ?
<Gord> No.
<wdl> Roderick, you cannot change the Bylaws without having an Officer election first, IMHO.
| A heated procedural debate followed; "bleeped" here by request of the Acting-President.
| VOICE Board members without one may obtain a complete log from the Acting-Secretary.
<eCSNL> Oke so we wait for elections to be held in september of should we do it sooner ?
<Gord> Yes.
<Gord> We need to collect nominations as soon as possible.
<wdl> They're long overdue; shouldn't have taken this long to even see the necessity.
<wdl> Gord: your hat's in the ring, as is mine. Are there any others you know of?
<wdl> Uh, I think maybe eCSNL's is "official" too??
<eCSNL> If the people want me again.
<eCSNL> I will run for president again
<eCSNL> and liason officer.
<wdl> eCSNL: Would need a bio for Liason Officer, I think. Could be same as you already submitted, re-titled??
<wdl> Bear in mind ;-) in my *proposed* Bylaws, the L.O. position is eliminated.
<wdl> But that's an issue for later - much later - when Bylaw revision become an "item" for the members.
<eCSNL> Our vice president Walter Metcalf wants todo the elections in September.
<eCSNL> I get the impression there is a mayority here of (BOD) members who want to hold the elections sooner ?
<wdl> President!! Walter... !!!
<Gord> Huh? Who put my hat in the ring?
<wdl> ...unless he's resigned?
<wdl> Gord: In my files, I *think* I saw you'd done that?
<Gord> Oh.
<Gord> Yes, sooner elections.
<eCSNL> WDL on the vice president/president issue
<Gord> Or at least start the process sooner.
<eCSNL> In the event the office of President becomes vacant, the Vice President shall succeed to the Presidency.
<eCSNL> Thats in the bylaws
<eCSNL> And what is exactly means vacant ?
<Gord> We have to collect nominations and prepare the members, and campaign, and everything.
<wdl> eCSNL: Yes, that's the question. The Presidency is vacant by resignation, incapacity, etc etc.
<Gord> Not much time before a Sept vote.
<wdl> Is Walter resigned? Incapacitated? No longer active in VOICE affairs? What???
<eCSNL> Well as president he kind of resigned
<wdl> If none-of-the-above - then Walter is still President.
<wdl> "kind of resigned" doesn't cut it. Resigned or not?
<Gord> Sounds to me like he wanted out of the job because he found it too heavy.
<wdl> If he *wants* out, he should *get* out...
<Gord> He thought we would benefit from the youth and strength of Roderick.
<Gord> Well didn't he?
<wdl> ...NOT that I want that to happen. But, y'know, rules? Rule-of-law?
<wdl> Gord: I've not seen any "official" notification of resignation.
<Gord> Nor have I.
<Gord> He picked up other duties immediately.
<Gord> We best ask him, no?
<wdl> And any succession is clouded by the murky BOD make-up...
<wdl> ...BUT/AND, under the circumstances - if Walter IS resigned - then ECSNL seems the , uh , *natural* choice???
<Gord> Alright, lets ask Walter for an official notification.
<Gord> Then eCSNL is in, per the bylaws.
<wdl> Yes. At a minimum, to avoid the SAME debacle as with the once-Treasurer!
<Gord> Then eCSNL is official, if not elected, (yet).
<eCSNL> Walter is not here at the moment.
<eCSNL> But is a bad thing to annouch ellections right now then ?
<eCSNL> That means that other interested people can send in there
<wdl> Gord: "official" ... Under the *weird* circumstances, ...yes.
<Gord> But if Walter resigns then eCSNL becomes the 'official' president and Walter is 'unconstitutionally' vice-president.
<wdl> eCSNL: "we" don't announce elections, so much as we decide...
<eCSNL> information so they can also run for any of the VOICE options.
<wdl> ... they must be held. Then we follow the current Bylaws - to hold 'em.
<eCSNL> Well not annouch the elections.
<wdl> Gord: If he resigns, he's no officer of any sort.
<Gord> That's what I meant.
<eCSNL> What I mean send out an annoucment saying (rembering) people
<eCSNL> there are going to be elections for the BOD of voice.
<eCSNL> If you also want to be a candidate
<eCSNL> send in your biography
<eCSNL> So the election commitee can collect the information.
<eCSNL> Then from a certain date
<eCSNL> we say people can vote on a person
<eCSNL> via uhuuu
<eCSNL> here is another thing..
<eCSNL> Where the last elections nog held via a website
<eCSNL> instead of
<eCSNL> email ?
<wdl> Let me stick in a future-Bylaws thought here... Please?
<eCSNL> oke
<wdl> I think the number of officers already is too large for an organization of this size...
<wdl> ...BUT, there is merit in what some other orgs do - have a "Past-President" as an Officer...
<MADeCSSMP> I believe the last election which was for President between Walter and Lynn Maxson was via email. I recall the turnout was very poor.
<wdl> ...this retains on the BOD knowledge/lore, and ensures a kind of continuity...
<wdl> ...which we're hugely lacking right now...
<MADeCSSMP> I can check my archived mail for the details
<wdl> ... Anyone wants to comment on that - wisdon/terrible - email me separately???
<wdl> ...done.
<Gord> Who is on this election committee you mentioned?
<eCSNL> Well thats either me of Walter
<eCSNL> of=or
<KenKrchnr> We need to elect an election committee :-)
<Gord> That's another thing...
<MADeCSSMP> The committee should not have anyone on it that is running for office.
<Gord> Some people standing for election may be complete unknowns to the electorate.
<Gord> That may contribute to low voter turnout.
<Gord> Some campaigning to raise our visibility might help
<MADeCSSMP> Gord: Since the vast majority of the membership doesn't particpate in any manner that is always the problem.
<Gord> Well they send their dues in.
<wdl> Hmmm.
<wdl> Consider -- for the future -- Dues always on a calandar-year basis, then hold elections at the same time?
<wdl> ... pay and vote?
<MADeCSSMP> That is nice, but it would be nice if they did something else besides that as well. Anyway my point was that since few people bther to come to meetings they tend to not know what is going on and who the active people are.
<MADeCSSMP> Perhaps run some articles in the Newsletter where each candidate is interviewed
<Gord> Yet they care enough to spend money on it. strange.
<Gord> Good idea.
<Gord> Excellent Idea!!!
<eCSNL> MArc
<eCSNL> and Gord its a nice idea
<eCSNL> But looking at it.
<MADeCSSMP> First though someone needs to write an announcement of exactly what is the BoD is doing about it.
<MADeCSSMP> To see if there is anyone willing to be nominated.
<KenKrchnr> My feeling is that would drag this process out even longer.
<eCSNL> Thanks for the comment Ken.
<eCSNL> We need to hold elections as soon as possible.
<eCSNL> And I also would not be happy with a low amount of people voting.
<eCSNL> But then again if people who want to run for a fuction.
<eCSNL> First need to step forward and then be interviewed. Yes then we would stretch the elections out even futher.
<KenKrchnr> Maybe that could be done as part of the "renewal" process. So we might get others interested.
<MADeCSSMP> Then get started on the announcement. The problem in the past is that things were rushed and no one knew what to do. Anyway the sooner you get started the better.
<KenKrchnr> I agree.
<KenKrchnr> What kind of timing can we be looking at?
<Gord> The 'someone to write an announcement' could be the election committee.
<Gord> I nominate Mark, unless he wants to run for office.
<Gord> I have to go.
<MADeCSSMP> The announcement should be written by someone on the BoD after they finalize all the dates and the procedure
<eCSNL> Oke I would to suggest the following and then turn into a motion by somebody else.
<eCSNL> Annouchment could go out tomorow and nominee's can step forward until
<eCSNL> 17th of July
<eCSNL> 0:00
<eCSNL> They can send in there biography
<eCSNL> to
<eCSNL> nominateNOT@THISos2voice.org
<eCSNL> That ends up at the secretary and me.
<eCSNL> Then there is one week left for interviews which can be placed in voice.
<eCSNL> Then from the second saturday
<eCSNL> till the third saturday of august people can vote via the web
<eCSNL> How does this proposal sound ?
<KenKrchnr> Sounds about right to me
<KenKrchnr> Maybe the announcement will take an extra day or so
<wdl> Does the timing, etc, *adequately* fit Bylaws provisions?
<wdl> If so, then "...sounds about right..." here too.
<eCSNL> OKe ballots should be accepted for 10
<eCSNL> days according to the voice bylaws...
<eCSNL> Seeing there is mayority
<eCSNL> to support this
<eCSNL> Could somebody turn the above I have written into a motion
<eCSNL> which I can not do
<eCSNL> as being the chairman.
<KenKrchnr> wdl, according to the bylaws there needs to be 5 delegate members to petition, I don't think I've seen that many members at a meeting in some time :-)
<wdl> Ken: True 'nuff. What's to petition?
<KenKrchnr> I propose a motion to prepare an election as Roderick stated, so we can get on with the real business of voice.
<wdl> If that's a motion - I second it.
<MADeCSSMP> What about the details Roderick proposed?
<eCSNL> Well looking at it.
<eCSNL> Who is going be the person who is the chairman of the election commitee ?
<KenKrchnr> We are close to that timetable. We'll probably need an extra day or two to post the notice. And an extra 3 days for the vote.
<KenKrchnr> If we can do a call for nominations (I'll put it on the web page aas a news bulletin)
<KenKrchnr> Does the timing - 2 weeks nominating - 10 days board prep - 10 days voting meet everybodys approval?
<eCSNL> 1. Annouchment could go out tomorow for the VOICE elections and nominee's can step forward until 21th of July 0:00 GMT
<eCSNL> 2. They can send in there biography to nominateNOSPAMNOT@THISos2voice.org (Remove NOSPAM)
<eCSNL> 3. Then there is one week left for interviews which can be placed in VOICE newsletters of August.
<eCSNL> 4. Then from the second Saturday (0:00 GMT) till the third Saturday of August (0:00 GMT) people can vote via the web at www.os2voice.org/election/
<KenKrchnr> That works for me
<MADeCSSMP> same here
<wdl> Cool.
<eCSNL> Are we ready to call for a vote on this motion that I made and Ken put forward :-)
<wdl> "Call the question" !
<wdl> ...RoO slang for yes.
<eCSNL> All of favor of this motion say aye
<wdl> Aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<JWE> Aye
<MADeCSSMP> aye
<eCSNL> I don't even have to ask who is against this motion
<eCSNL> since
<eCSNL> a mayority is there.
<eCSNL> Anyway
<eCSNL> anbody against this
<eCSNL> say aye now or keep silent for ever :-)
<eCSNL> Motion accepted :-)
<wdl> Ken: Given the circumstances, the BOD could act as a "committee-of-the-whole" and submit the incumbent "Acting-xxx" as nominees...
<MADeCSSMP> Technically those opposed should say Nay
* eCSNL is not yet fully trained in the technicall details of this style of meetings :-)
<wdl> ...and post their existing BIOs? Get things rolling, sorta?
<eCSNL> They post them to
<eCSNL> nominateNOT@THISos2voice.org
<eCSNL> The page we should post all candidates is in my opion at
<KenKrchnr> wdl, yes, the bios are there, but I'll put a new link to them.
<eCSNL> www.os2voice.org/election/
<wdl> I'm willing to do clean-up on any BIOs that the owners think would benefit from it.
<eCSNL> My clumsy semi English maybe looks better :-)
<eCSNL> If people want to vote on somebody who perfectly can write English
<eCSNL> I'm not the perfect candidate :-)
<wdl> eCSNL: Your words/meaning are clear enough.
<eCSNL> As Ken is telling me WDL.
<wdl> The offer was meant for any new niminees who'd like a little help.
<eCSNL> Your wife is knocking on the door for dinner :-)
<eCSNL> I'm afraid we the two other points are for the next meeting again.
<wdl> "Argh. "niminees" = "Nominees". Maybe *I* need the help. ;-)
<eCSNL> Unless everybody has about 30 more minutes
<wdl> 2.C is hadled already?
<eCSNL> thats true
<wdl> 3. We can skip?
<wdl> The resy *should* be tabled????
* eCSNL smells WDL his dinner getting cold ?
<wdl> "resy" = "rest". <sigh>
<eCSNL> Points 3 a and b
<wdl> No; gotta go play in the mud. Garden plumbing needs, ah, help.
<eCSNL> moved to
<eCSNL> the next meeting...
<KenKrchnr> Motion to adjourn
<eCSNL> All in favor of this motion say Aye
<JWE> Aye
<wdl> Aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<eCSNL> All opposed type Nay
* eCSNL hears the wind going threw the #voice channel
<eCSNL> Hello Bob
<eCSNL> Motion is supported.
<WarpedOS2> Hi Bob
14:30:49 <eCSNL> This meeting is now adjourned, closed, finito, ferme, gesloten, Geslossen.