SpeakUp with Serenity Systems from 07/10/2000 (Topic: eComStation)

<BobStJohn>	eOrion Well, howdy, pardner! Hey, everybody .. last time we had Joachim Benjamins from Mensys .. now from the other part of the world Mark Rogers, of Orion Solutions, our distributor in Oz!!!
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Proceed with your surprise ... just don't embarass me ... like Sector did ... ;-(
<eOrion>	We are very quickly setting up an 'eComStation' here to participate - just getting IRC going :-)
<eOrion>	Give me 5 min :-)
<MADodel>	A silk lace teddie?
<BobStJohn>	OK .. this is deterioriating ... so I'll speed it up and start.
<DCasey>	BobStJohn Sure ... go ahead and start
<BobStJohn>	I think most folks I see here have been here .. and I don't want to repeat things.
<BobStJohn>	I will treat this as an announcment event, though. And I have a press release that we'll put on tomorrow for Wednesday release.
<BobStJohn>	eComStation is now officially announced. One of the best sources of information is actually the Mensys site
<BobStJohn>	http://ecomstation.mensys.nl
<BobStJohn>	Joachim went on vacation so he put the information up on Friday
<BobStJohn>	There will be additional information on www.Serenity-Systems.com and www.ecomstation.com by Wednesday
<BobStJohn>	The product will be sold by Jacaranda Systems in Canada, Indelible Blue in the US, Mensys in Europe, Mati in Mexico and Latin America, and Orion Solutions in Australia and the Pacific Rim.
<BobStJohn>	Products include eComStation, eCS SMP, eCS Pro (SMP and JFS)
<eOrion>	Our web site will be updated with the next 36 hours as well.
<BobStJohn>	One of the best sources of information is the discussion group on eGroups (www.egroups.com .. group is ecomstation)
<paul_wtw>	good to hear the ink is on the paper finally Bob
<BobStJohn>	All ecs products include a special pricing for OS/2 V4 upgrades until Feb 1. 2001. Pricing ranges from $129 US (SRP) for eCS upgrade from Merlin to $499 for the eCS Professional, new user.
<RLD>	BobStJohn: will the upgrades to eCS after 2001 be the same $129 SRP?
<BobStJohn>	RLD I anticipate there will be no upgrade product after 2.1.2001.
<BobStJohn>	Essentially, we're saying OS/2 V4 users have until the end of January to upgrade. However, there will always be the ability to request special bid pricing.
<BobStJohn>	Keeping mind that support for Merlin goes away on 1/31/2001 .. all Software Choice features become fee, even OS/2 fixpacks.
<BobStJohn>	We will deliver Software Choice as part of the Serenity Systems Software Subscription Service .. which we expect the distributors to bundle with their support agreements .. but that's up to them.
<BobStJohn>	I wonder if there are any Ss left?
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Yooo ... mark .. your five minutes up, yet?
<MADodel>	Is the eCS software Choice an add on? Or is it included in the initial cost of eCS product?
<BobStJohn>	Geeez .. it's quiet .. this could be the fastest that I ever offended everyone in ear shot .. oh, thanks Mark
<eOrion>	Not quite - trust me not to have the SDD drivers setup - Java dont like a small amount of colors!
<BobStJohn>	The software subscription service is an add on .. it is not in the purchase price of the product.
<RLD>	hmmm
<MADodel>	Any idea what that will cost?
<BobStJohn>	madodel That's difficult for me to answer right now .. because it won't be Software Choice as IBM sells it. It will include enhancements to the Serenity Systems components .. and I want it to include service and support options.
<BobStJohn>	However .. I expect the overall pricing and value to be below IBM's pricing .. and there will be a service for eCS and Warp Server for e-b.
<BobStJohn>	If all you want is SWC .. you can still buy it. The "OS/2" features on Software Choice will be the same "OS/2" features that appear as part of the software subscription service. Just that our service will include some other things.
<BobStJohn>	And .. as I said, I would expect the distributors to package some suppport with the service.
<MADodel>	OK. Those who purchase the preview version, will get a fully updated final release even if they don't purchase the Subscription Service?
<BobStJohn>	I also expect the pricing of the subscription service to go up by the end of the year to cover the cost of some of the new enhancements.
<Arkay>	Some people have said that they think IBM will gauge the profitability of OS/2 based on the sales of Software Choice. I don't think this is true, however, will IBM be considering in any way the volumn of sales that you make with eCS when deciding on
<BobStJohn>	madodel The answer is yes .. but not the way you phrased it. No one is purchasing the preview version. They are actually purchasing the Generally Available (GA) version. Howerver, they will receive a preview to use until the GA ships.
<Arkay>	future plans for OS/2?
<DCasey>	BobStJohn If I were to buy the Preview Release, the eGroups discounted version, direct from Serenity ...would I also be able to purchase the Subscription service direct through Serenity?
<BobStJohn>	I cannot speak for IBM. However, we certainly will.
<BobStJohn>	DCasey Again, you are not purchasing the preview. I hand not considered selling the subscription ourselves because that would put us in competition with our distributors. I would expect you would get it from Indelible Blue.
<BobStJohn>	Arkay The future of OS/2 is a challenging topic. We are going into this with a long range product plan.
<DCasey>	BobStJohn That's what I thought ... just wanted to be sure I could buy the subscription service through IB, if I bought eCS through Serenity
<BobStJohn>	Arkay However, what the role of IBM would be in that product plan is less clear.
<BobStJohn>	DCasey Sure .. they are separate products.
<BobStJohn>	DCasey If anyone had such a problem, we would step in and resolve it quickly.
<BobStJohn>	Kim has spoken about some enhancements .. including an ultra fast boot, DHCP, and pre-execution boot services .. all directed at eCS being able to run as an Inet appliance .. booting over the Inet.
<BobStJohn>	One thing we should keep in mind .. we are about Managed Clients. OS/2 happens to be the world's best platform for Managed Clients.
<Arkay>	Do you know if the resellers will be offering upgrades from the Base version to the SMP and Pro, if the base version was purchased from Serenity?
<BobStJohn>	Therefore, OS/2 is our start point. But, as a Managed Client, it is our intent to make our client OS agnostic.
<BobStJohn>	Arkay Yes .. you can upgarde from eCS to eCS SMP .. or eCS Pro. As a rule of them, think of each additional feature as approximately $110 SRP.
<BobStJohn>	What I was saying is, I expect our eCS to be able to run an integrated Linux with OS/2. Windows is more of a challenge.
<eOrion>	Dont forget you can recompile Linux Apps to run on OS/2
<BobStJohn>	But we are looking at several ways to support Windows. One is a Win32 WiseClient. The other is the Freedom Card, which would support Windows and eCS in the same chassis .. two computers. The third is Odin.
<MADodel>	Bob: Did you catch the multi-page article in ComputerWorld titled "Thin is in". They of course only mention windows terminal server and Citrix.
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Yes, another option. eComServer will eventually support Linux
<BobStJohn>	madodel Nope .. but OS/2 eZine ran a much better Thin Is In last June .. best piece I've ever read on this topic.
<MADodel>	Did you write it? :-)
<Arkay>	Too bad that author doesn't write more. What was his name again? :-)
<BobStJohn>	But there is a key message for everyone here. We go with OS/2 because of functionality, reliability, cost and price performance, and ability to manage. WiseManager remains an OS/2 application.
<MADodel>	Bob: will Serenity be promoting this product beyond the scope of current OS/2 users.
<BobStJohn>	Arkay madodel You know .. either I just don't have anything more to say ... or I have less time .. but if anyone can suggest a topic which I feel strongly enough to put forward a piece .. fine. I'm happy to participate in eZine.
<BobStJohn>	madodel Absolutely. Part of the message I'm trying to get out is eCS is viable for today's environment. But it is focused on the next 18 months to five years. We regard everything that is in use today as legacy in three to five years.
<Arkay>	Let's talk about the Programmers Workbench. Do you have any further idea what that will involve?
<BobStJohn>	So .. part of the message is .. eCS will support your legacy environment for as long as you need to run it. You run your OS/2 apps as long as you choose to run them. But eCS will also enable you participate in TNBT .. no matter what it is .. because eCS manages all the changes associated with transition and migration.
<MADodel>	TNBT?
<DSOMber1>	The Next Best Thing?
<Arkay>	The Next Big Thing
<BobStJohn>	Arkay Sorry, I'm having some trouble pulling that together because I'm just no programmer and I'm don't understand the components. What I'm looking at is eCS+DB2 Developer Edition+VA Java Professional. Now, there is also the JDK for 1.3 which should be in there .. I think I can do that. There is the OS/2 Dev Toolkit 4.5 .. have no idea what that is or
<BobStJohn>	how to cobble it in there .. if it needs to be there.
<BobStJohn>	The Next Big Thing ... whatever the next Java, Linux .. or eCS will be. :-)
<BobStJohn>	I want OS/2 users to understand that we will extend and enhance OS/2.
<BobStJohn>	But this is not about OS/2 .. only OS/2
<MADodel>	Has IBM been cooperative in that regard? Extending OS/2
<BobStJohn>	madodel IBM as one entity simply doesn't exist. It's like the blind men touching the elephant.
<BobStJohn>	However, I think Kim and I can be successful in retaining IBM's suppport and cooperation.
<BobStJohn>	But I think IBM's role could change ...
<BobStJohn>	I'm trying to work out some business relationships that will make eCS less dependent on IBM in some regards.
<BobStJohn>	And I'm still talking about extending OS/2 ... but IBM will always be the keeper .. the owner of OS/2.
<eOrion>	We will also be looking at using as much open source as possible providing its stable and meets a business need - like ODIN and XWorkplace.
<BobStJohn>	I just want to be very careful talking about the future .. because I'm afraid of hearing something that I said come back to me in a much more exaggerated form. "Bob St.John said Serenity Systems is taking over OS/2"
<BobStJohn>	But I do think IBM will help us develop our products .. which will involve enhancing the functionality which involve OS/2 technology and components ..
<BobStJohn>	Going back to eZine .. the problem I've had of late is that all I have to say is shameless promotion of what I want to do with Serenity Systems. I don't think that's appropriate use of eZine.
<eOrion>	IBM also has projects like Moterey which could be interesting...
<BobStJohn>	If eCS does well ... there are a lot of opportunities available which will spring from OS/2 .. and take "OS/2" along with it.
<BobStJohn>	So, Chrissy, the ice cream thawed, yet?
<MADodel>	Bob: I'd like to see some of that shameless promotion in something like ComputerWorld
<Chrissy>	no ice cream here at all :(
<BobStJohn>	madodel I think we can get there. We have to ship product first.
<BobStJohn>	The Mobile Managed Client aspect of eComStation is really significant. Really, really significant. That's a discussion you can read in eGroups. But I think things will be more clear by the beginning of the fourth quarter, certainly by the end of the year.
<BobStJohn>	This is not the OS/2 Convenience Pack with some desktop add ons. This is a serious change to how computers can operate. Leading edge .. but based on stuff OS/2 could do for years. The Inet and high speed connections have conditioned folks better to hear the story, though.
<BobStJohn>	You folks may remember Micho Durdevich from WarpTech .. did the booting Alien OSs from Warp Server?
<BobStJohn>	He has done an heckuva a job doing a diskless rpl for Win9X
<DSOMber1>	I read about it.
<BobStJohn>	Micho as agreed to work with us to crate a Win32 WiseClient which will support W2K and NT .. and drag and drop software deployment to diskless rpl workstations .. which could be running in the same PC chassis as eCS, running OS/2 and an integrated Linux implementation.
<BobStJohn>	To the user .. one PC. To the adminstrator ... a delight.
<BobStJohn>	eOrion OK .. now what's your surprise?
<BobStJohn>	Hey .. anybody??? Am I alone, again .. naturally?
<Arkay>	I'm still here. I don't know about eOrion
<Sector>	It's been five minutes alreadyù
<RLD>	BobStJohn: how legacy ya gonna/wanna go? 286 maybe?
<BobStJohn>	eCS ... complete support for DOS.
<BobStJohn>	I'm looking foward to Kim giving me a Freedom Card which has eCS SMP embedded .. we put into a Windows machine .. and POFF .. magic happens ..
<eOrion>	yeah, still here:-)
<RLD>	BobStJohn: ya migh wanna check out this link at pcworld. a revamped/named geoworks. http://www.pcworld.com/pcwtoday/article/0,1510,17591,00.html
<eOrion>	We can get the Managed Client up - it can see the net, but Netscape like crashing starting Java :-( So were now setting up an IRC client :-)
<BobStJohn>	Well ... may I ask what your surprise is? what it is that you are so proud of?
<BobStJohn>	Oh
<BobStJohn>	Suppose we provided an eComServer that had LAN Server functionality running on Linux servers?
<BobStJohn>	Suppose Eleanor Roosevelt could fly like Peter Pan .. oops, wrong chat
<DSOMber1>	SAMBA support?
<eOrion>	Its not a biggy - really, when you consider we've tried 4 device drivers, re-created the machine twice, and added/removed several drivers & apps in the scpace of 40 min its a good sign as to its flexibility!
<BobStJohn>	DSOMber1 Hmmmm SAMBA .. .SAMBA, yup
<BobStJohn>	eOrion What the frog feathers you talkin' about, son
<Arkay>	I've gotta go. later all.
<eOrion>	Hmmm, frogs with feathers - ours up here kill you if you lick them!
<BobStJohn>	OK .. in a moment, I feel it would be incumbent upon me to start asking questions ... no reason to sit here quietly.
<eOrion>	Seriously, we have to set up the GenGrad or Scitech drivers so that Netscape doesn't crash in 16 colour mode.
<eOrion>	Or to set up an IRC Client - doing that now :-)
<DSOMber1>	Any current/future upgrades to WiseManager available? Should we expect any for eCS?
<BobStJohn>	paul_wtw Whaddya think? What can we be doing to move things forward, in your view?
<BobStJohn>	See , I wasn't joking about a spot quiz
<MADodel>	BobStJohn: You're going to scare people off if you call on them
<borg>	quite frankly news about os/2 stuff really no longer thrills me anymore, even though I have roughly 1500 os/2 servers and workstations I support and that work really well. With linux seemingly taking over the backroom space its much more exciting
<paul_wtw>	sorry bob... was just trying to hunt down my password, lol
<BobStJohn>	borg Well, there you go. borg .. what can I say .. you have a point. Much of the sizzle has moved to Linux. But Linux has some severe "issues" .. and we think we can implement a Linux-OS/2 product that will blow the doors of what Linux can offer today.//ON -Marketing Weasel Speak .
<paul_wtw>	I think we get a list of the questions that customers are asking irrespective of the back end platforms and technologies and provide eCS as an answer... assuming they are asking those questions eCS addresses
<eOrion>	Linux is fun, its also UNIX, and therefore isn't right for your average user - even Windows confuses them - LINUX wont help here. We are talking easy to use desktops, supported by experts that can quickly fix things remotely -thats eComServer/eComStation/Managed Clients.
<MADodel>	Linux is too much work. You gonna change that?
<BobStJohn>	borg Of course, I know how dull things can be when they simply work well. It's always p*ssed me off, too.
<borg>	thats a good point, however I think any platform could be said to have 'issues' depending on what you are doing. The whole problem is what do companies like mine who have invested very heavily into os/2 and now feel abandoned do when we see wizbang products under this platform? Maybe the open source stuff is giving us a false sense of security, I dont know
<BobStJohn>	madodel That is the principal thing we intend to change ... we will use OS/2 to tame Linux.
<BobStJohn>	borg Well, we are trying to provide a message to folks who have invested in OS/2 ... eCS is targetted at protecting that investment. That is precisely our intent. Because it is something worth doing, something that makes sense, and is a real business opportunity.
<borg>	actually we find linux very easy to deal with.. but I must admit we do miss some of the features os/2 has to offer
<BobStJohn>	borg What specific "whizbang products" are causing issues?
<eOrion>	Borg thats true, but your in the back room, the front room users are MUCH different!
<borg>	well you might say we consider ibms latest server offering - OS/2 for e-business to be somewhat of a joke
<borg>	im not here to talk bad about os/2 either
<borg>	so dont get me wrong.. i've made a decent living on it since the early 90's
<BobStJohn>	borg It's OK. I grant dispensation. But you jumped from "whizbang products" that you are missing out on and Aurora being a joke. Please finish one thought so I can digest it before leaping to the next.
<borg>	heh :)
<eOrion>	I guess the thing here is that we are using OS/2 technology to push into a new computing model - Managed Clients, we will use whatever other technology can help in that direction - currently OS/2 is very good in this space.
<BobStJohn>	That's the thing ... OS/2 is an excellent engine. It enables you to do a lot of things.
<BobStJohn>	Windows is exposed because it fails miserably in the ability to adapt to change .. network centric chang
<borg>	thus the reluctance to invest in technology that is os/2 based because of that
<BobStJohn>	borg Fair enough .. relunctance to invest in OS/2 technology. But I think we can still discuss how to leverage the investment already made ..in OS/2, in applications, in skills and infrastructure.
<borg>	well thats a big investment.. over an 8 year period well over 1 million ..
<borg>	not much money, ,but a lot to a small company
<borg>	and leveraging with existing os/2 is something im extremely interested in
<BobStJohn>	borg But it is money well spent. You got a system that works and is reliable. And now your foresight is about to pay off because WiseManager can come in and work with the existing environment. No significant investment required.
<BobStJohn>	Next step, to eCS, can be negotiated by special bid.
<BobStJohn>	Again, protecting and extending the current investment, positioning the organization for TNBT.
<RLD>	and cover new evironments (if I'm not speaking out of turn BobStJohn )
<BobStJohn>	RLD That's entirely the point .. and borg's group is already there .. well positioned.
<eOrion>	A crucial point is that out of the total cost of ownership hardware/software is only a small portion (25%) - management/support is most of the remainder - any outlay costs can be recouped by reduced total cost of ownership
<RLD>	loks like it to me
<borg>	heres the biggest problem with our huge customer base in which we have installed os/2: it works.. it keeps working.. it's mission critical to a degree.. but our customers needs change and unfortunately os/2 seems to have remained static in development.. vendors who used to make software that ran under os/2 or under dos now no longer support the products
<borg>	thus our customers total cost of ownership is higher because we must deploy other platforms with middleware to accomidate the need
<BobStJohn>	borg That's true .. but that is also changing. Not to OS/2 but to server deployed, browser based applications.
<BobStJohn>	borg Where are you .. geographically.
<borg>	Houston, Tejas :)
<BobStJohn>	I know .. it was a question ?????
<paul_wtw>	Bob, you need to fire up the Suburban, lol
<eOrion>	eComX/WiseX will extend the OS/2 platform, and by using Browser based/Java/XML tech to backend systems you can effectively manage the transfer.
<BobStJohn>	Well, shoot ..son. Plan to come up to Dallas around the end of the month. We will show you some new direction for taking OS/2 .. which will ensure currency of the users.
<BobStJohn>	But we are still talking in general terms. To really help, we need to get into specifics. But the reality is, this is exactly the set of circumstances we are targeting.
<borg>	so I'm not knocking your product or your visions, but I question with linux rapidly growing and ever changing if our continued investment in legacy systems are a worthwhile cause
<BobStJohn>	Why, borg, I'm sooo glad you are here. Give us a chance to put up or shut up.
<eOrion>	You could think of eComX/WiseX as a new environment, using tried and true technologies, to leverage the migration to browser/Java while protecting most of your existing investment.
<BobStJohn>	borg But what makes you think we can't embrace Linux?
<BobStJohn>	borg Why, we can embrace and extend Linux ... ? (Sounding like Bill G.)
<borg>	nothing.. you mentioned it several times
<borg>	however I'd much rather have os/2 functionality while running under linux then the other way around
<BobStJohn>	borg Thank you .. though you might have been out looking up your password (PFFFFHHHBBBBBBBT to pau
<BobStJohn>	l
<borg>	the reason is quite clear: we are in control of our own destiny with open sourced LInux.. with os/2 we are at the mercy of whoever owns it.. which is IBM..
<paul_wtw>	i found it...
<BobStJohn>	borg Like I said, plan to come up to Dallas around the end of the month .. talk to us .. prepare to be amazed.
<BobStJohn>	paul_wtw = weasel .. oops .. I shouldn't do things like that.
<BobStJohn>	They always comeback to haunt
<paul_wtw>	i bet you have it as a hot key
<eOrion>	There are pro's and cons for Open Source vs Propietary, no one solution is right for 100% of cases.
<borg>	truthfully im at a disadvantage in that Im not fully up to par on even what your product is about.. so pasting a url to me would be very helpful so I wont come off as having my thumb up my arse
<BobStJohn>	eOrion No, but borg has a very good point regarding the need to control one's destiny, and the appeal of open source, not getting around it.
<RLD>	BobStJohn: maybe I missed the announcement. you gonna have a public rollout of eCS here in the Dallas area?
<Sector>	http://ecomstation.mensys.nl/
<borg>	gracias
<BobStJohn>	borg You make a lot of sense to me.
<BobStJohn>	go to www.serenity-systems.com .. then look on the left for Managed Client Library ..click on that and read the first doc .. Support for the WiseManager Eval Kit .. something we need to get to you.
<eOrion>	comming back - hold on
<BobStJohn>	Also go to OS/2 e-Zine ..www.os2ezine.com .. read quckly through the interview .. but pay close attention to the urls at the end, especially Peter Coffee's article
<Dennis>	g'day one and all!
<Sector>	Hi there Dennis
<Dennis>	Finally made it in - although it would have been nicer to be using the eComStation!!
<eOrion>	The opportunity for prospective consultants is to actually earn a revenue stream from the technology/architecture - a fairly rare thing to do for the small/medium consulting firms.
<BobStJohn>	Dennis Patience, lad .. patience. Mum used to say stuff about all good things and other nice things.
<Dennis>	I'm here with Mark at Orion Solutions and have been watching everything that has been happening here.
<Dennis>	It has been quite an eye opener as to what can be done in such a short period of time.
<eOrion>	I admit defeat - we could surf but not run Java apps, and I had not set up an IRC client - so in the interests of getting Dennis to participate he's now typing on my second server.
<eOrion>	Next time..... I will plan ahead - I actually thought this IRC was going to happen a day away - my mistake.
<BobStJohn>	My favorite quote was from SCOUG .. People were seen falling off their chairs when Kim gave his demo
<Dennis>	Three complete system rebuilds along with numerous driver and application tests trying to work out what was happening with the computer.
<BobStJohn>	Peter Coffee said the WiseManager demo was worth the trip to Atlanta to see
<BobStJohn>	Bill Nicholls had similar nice things to say in Byte.
<BobStJohn>	Fact is .. WiseManager universally impresses people.
<eOrion>	I was also caught out due to a new version of WiseManager/Server - so I didn't have anywhere near the apps/drivers set up to get the IBM NS2800 running as it should be :-(
<BobStJohn>	I watched Kim demo it to IBM folks in March when we were there to propose eCS .. and even I was impressed ;-)
<BobStJohn>	I bought a dozen of 'em
<paul_wtw>	with who's credit card?
<BobStJohn>	paul_wtw Kim's, of course!
<eOrion>	I tell you what, the ability to totally destroy and rebuild an entire OS/2 system in the space of 3 minutes is always impressive!
<Dennis>	This system is a very good extension to the os/2 technologies that we are all currently using.
<Sector>	He can only admit that cause Kim isn't here...
<MADodel>	There will be a log though
<BobStJohn>	But it really wasn't until we could discuss eCS and where it can go that we started getting attention .. and that's OK. Better late than never.
<Sector>	Don't tell Kim that...
<MADodel>	will Serenity be at Warpstock2000 in Philly?
<BobStJohn>	Lot of attention focused on the Freedom Card, too
<BobStJohn>	Warpstock .. here's the plan ..
<eOrion>	Running Windows apps in the OS/2 network environment is becomming more easy with several technologies, the Freedom card will make a large difference to clients needing to run Lagacy windows apps.
<BobStJohn>	We're looking at sponsoring a booth with Chris Stumpf, our Channel Partner in New Jersey, because we want to focus on the services component. We expect Indelible Blue to be in the booth. And I'm bringing up a services provider with a Notes Contact application and a new finance and accounting package, complete with touchscreen timeclock and payroll.
<MADodel>	No sessions?
<BobStJohn>	madodel Problem is .. I really think that the WarpStock audience has heard it all. I'd be willing to do a BOF anytime .. but I just have trouble justifying a presentation. If I'm wrong ... tell me what I ought to be presenting ... that they would not have heard by then.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Hearing and seeing 2 different things....
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic True .. that's what the exhibit booth is for, though.
<MADodel>	Well, since this is a totally different geographical location then the past three years, we do expect some new faces that couldn't travel to previous ones.
<Fuzy|ogic>	AH, god point.
<Fuzy|ogic>	good.
<eOrion>	Over here in Australia we will be finding then working with channel partners to develop a regular income using WiseX/eComX technologies, so demo's will be happening in the major capitals.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I have never been to the sessions myself, and I have been to WS98 and '99.
<BobStJohn>	madodel Well, we can kick it around.
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Terrific.
<Sector>	Hey, whatch who your kickingð
<BobStJohn>	Sector You are *such* a sissy!
<eOrion>	We are positoning the product here as a "new" product based on proven technologies - with a future development/enhancement path.
<BobStJohn>	Good show
<Dennis>	I think that everyone will need to grasp the fact that this is a "new" product based on technologies which make up our beloved OS/2.
<paul_wtw>	That is my take on it. Maybe a pretty box to go with it (or at least a picture of a pretty box)
<BobStJohn>	Chrissy You ever been on a box?
<Chrissy>	what kind of box?
<BobStJohn>	Maybe that's what we ought to do at Warpstock .. have a contest for packaging .. ;-)
<Dennis>	It will also be more than the fat client that we now know it as...
<paul_wtw>	Boxes seem to add validity for some reason
<Chrissy>	ohhhh I get it... LOL
<Chrissy>	no... not me
<eOrion>	We are also looking at ways to incorporate ODIN, and the Windows apps that it will run.
<Dennis>	As Mark has stated here, eCS will be as thin or as fat as it needs to be to do the job.
<paul_wtw>	hmmm, we don't get away with such comments out here in the far west.
<eOrion>	The IBM Network Station 2800 is a nice box, but we are also looking at Celeron and Duron based eComStations.
<paul_wtw>	I am talking about the cardboard kind
<eOrion>	I was talking about boxes :-)
<BobStJohn>	I had that discussion with one gentlemen ... I mean, how do you call SMP and JFS thin ...? But it can be .. just need to be careful about how people understand the terms used.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Perhaps Serenity should come up with a "Mascot"....
<BobStJohn>	paul_wtw So were we.
<eOrion>	A penguin on a leash?
<Sector>	Chrissy could be the Mascot
<Chrissy>	excuse me?
<Fuzy|ogic>	Dear God! No more penguins....
<BobStJohn>	Sector Maybe go with a plant?
<eOrion>	It was on a leash!
<MADodel>	How about one of those Roos you have over on the bottom of the world?
<Chrissy>	DSOMber1!
<eOrion>	Managed Client and all that :-)
<Dennis>	How about one of those flying windows on a leash!!
<DSOMber1>	Me?
<Chrissy>	a plant was suggested
<BobStJohn>	Well this sure went downhill fast, LOL
<paul_wtw>	Sorry I brought it up, hehe
<eOrion>	Kangaroos, no they just are not cute enough.
<Fuzy|ogic>	A plant? Yeah, can't wait to have that box on the shelf....
<BobStJohn>	No leashes .. puhleeeeze. Wrong image, entirely.
<MADodel>	Please don't say eCS will obliterate your data
<eOrion>	Man in a suite stanting over someones shoulder?
<eOrion>	opps standing
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Mark, folks in the US don't know how kangaroos could labeled with that word.
<Fuzy|ogic>	A PC holding a communicator and being beamed up....
<Fuzy|ogic>	A bottle with a message in it washed up on a beach if you want to be elegant.
<BobStJohn>	We have a logo ... a swan. A waterfowl .. that I love.
<Sector>	Communications Centerù
<Fuzy|ogic>	How about your swan wearing tennis shoes?
<BobStJohn>	The message with the waterfowl involves how the bird glides across the water .. a beautiful graceful image.
<MADodel>	A swan wearing tennis shoes, smoking a cigar
<MADodel>	:-)
<eOrion>	Discussions of mascots is all very well, but unless we can get serious revenue flowing from the product then no matter what the mascot is it wont matter.
*	RLD was thinking more of yhr swan flying ala pheonix/2
<Fuzy|ogic>	The serenity logo should go on the box somewhere, but be no more prominant than the IBM logo on my WSeB box...
<BobStJohn>	While .. the view below the waterline is completely different. That's the point of the logo. Manage the below the waterline churn ... leve the above the waterline view for the users
<paul_wtw>	something with the swan and the managed client graphic from the website would b fine.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Things have to look expensive if somebody is going to pay money for them. Facts of life.
<BobStJohn>	I don't like boxes ... but I guess I'm out numbered.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Unless you don't ever plan to sell this off the shelf.
<paul_wtw>	The box doesn't have to have anything in it
<eOrion>	Rebuilding a computer within 90 seconds usually drops a few jaws!
<paul_wtw>	just sometthing to wave around
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Actually, I had never considered selling this off the shelf, in a Bricks and Mortar type store.
<Fuzy|ogic>	eOrion: That's why I like the Beaming thing...
<Dennis>	But another fact of life is that the Inet is becoming all pervasive and a means of supplying product away from the concept of "the box"
<BobStJohn>	No .. I'm just going to share it with my close, personal friends ... and Fuzy|ogic
<Fuzy|ogic>	Well, the CD case should have something...
<Dennis>	In fact "the box" can be quite limiting to the supply of product.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Danke'
<paul_wtw>	I think it makes a nice prop
<RLD>	boxes give the enduser a sense of propriety amd owning something... kinda like keeping up with the jonees "see what I got"
<eOrion>	eComStation, for the most part, is not targeted at end users (retail), it will be like the light switch that supplies the power. (That doesn't mean that end users cant buy it though!)
<DSOMber1>	Maybe one of those red plastic/glass cases...."In case of Emergency...break glass".
<RLD>	lol
<BobStJohn>	OK, lunatics ... back in your cells.
<BobStJohn>	Bor
<Fuzy|ogic>	arf! arf!
*	Sector throws away the key
<BobStJohn>	borg You still out there .. help me get this back to business!
<DSOMber1>	Man, I need my medication.
<DSOMber1>	borg?
<Fuzy|ogic>	Get whoever does the graphics for F/X communications to do one for you... The InJoy graphic is great.
<BobStJohn>	I feel soooo ... dirty ... and .. used.
<eOrion>	It could well develop that eComX has a variety of "faces" depending on reuirements - OS/2 / WAP / UNIX etc - as long as its Managed!!
<Abel>	IBM has already teamed with a Baby bell and is offering a type of 'plugin' box to sell csr's so they don't have to have a pc...
<Abel>	for internet adsl access...
<DSOMber1>	Yeah, F/X gfx look quite good.
<Abel>	seems as thoug eCS would be a candidate for ISP's to do the same.
<BobStJohn>	I guess two hours is the limit .. this is sort of like a cyberspace food fight
<eOrion>	Heres an example, a car company has a fleet, computer controled and optioned, using a Managed Client implimentation would allow them to add features to the car, or the client driving the car - on the fly....
<Dennis>	And I still have a 500km drive home 8-)
<eOrion>	HHmmm, a Managed Client controled car could help here :-)
<Dennis>	Could be!!
<DSOMber1>	Perhaps even those portable, wearable, mobile IBM computers.
<DSOMber1>	Handhelds and wireless units.
<Dennis>	Home automation is another area in which the managed client could excel.
<eOrion>	Anything is possible, Managed Client computing is all about management of connected, and part time connected systems - whereever they are!
<BobStJohn>	madodel You going to be able to "clean" this one up?
<MADodel>	I will give it a try. How much will you pay me to make you look good?
<MADodel>	:-)
<BobStJohn>	After tonight .. you could name your price!
<Fuzy|ogic>	We love you BobStJohn...
<MADodel>	VOICE extends it's thanks to Bob and the rest of the Serenity distributors for helping to educate us on eCS.
<BobStJohn>	de nada
<eOrion>	Your Welcome
<Fuzy|ogic>	Are you going somewhere, Bob?
<MADodel>	Hopefully a cleaned up log will be on the VOICEsite tomorrow, assuming the voice site is available by then.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic No, no ... I'm here for as long as is required or expected. I think Chrisbed comes around midnite,
<Dennis>	Well, I really must go, that 500km drive is looking none too pleasant as it is!
<Abel^>	:)
<BobStJohn>	eOrion What time is it in Oz
<Dennis>	12:21
<eOrion>	Lunch time
<Abel^>	Dennis at least you aren't riding your bicycle!
<eOrion>	PS we are in your future :-)
<Dennis>	true Abel^
<Dennis>	The car helps!
<BobStJohn>	Well .. thank you gentlemen for coming in. I feel really good about you folks and Daryl and Ian .. and Ed D. if we can spring him
<RLD>	thanks BobStJohn , I learn something new everytime
<Fuzy|ogic>	I want to buy this thing. When are you going to sell it to me?
<eOrion>	Since we are still here.... what does the OS/2 user community see eCS as - competition to OS/2 or New life for OS/2?
<Sector>	BobStJohn, thanks for stopping in and giving us the info
<Fuzy|ogic>	I see it as a company with some fresh ideas breathing new life into OS/2.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Well, if you don't qualify for one of the two promos .. you'll have to wait for the end of the week and order from IB.
<Fuzy|ogic>	And delivering network technologies never before witnessed.
<paul_wtw>	Now if we just had Bill Gates marketing budget.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I can wait that long I guess... It will be on CD, right?
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Multiple CDs .. this is something Kim covered in some detail on eGroups. Folks really ought to participate in that forum.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I guess, but I belong to too many groups!!!
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic I'm sorry.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Not your fault.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I'm spread thin.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic I know. :-)
<Dennis>	I'll catch everyone later.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I need to quit one actualy.. Too much traffic.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Maybe somebody asked this, but will eCS be updated with the same FixPacks as Warp?
<eOrion>	Yes - if approppriate
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic A real question! Bless you, Fuzy|ogic. Yes .. but there is a bit of a challenge, here. After Jan 31, 2001, Warp V4 is no longer supported, so fixpacks move on to the fee portion of Software Choice. But the answer is yes .. the question then becomes access.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Bah! Having to pay for support is ludicrous..
<BobStJohn>	Of course, by Jan 32, 2001 ... I don't think there will be any SWC that is not "fee" or restricted.
<RLD>	BobStJohn: will the upgrades to eCS after 2001 be the same $129 SRP?
<RLD>	<07:09PM> RLD I anticipate there will be no upgrade product after
<RLD>	2.1.2001.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic You were expecting free dancing lessons for life? ;-)
<DSOMber1>	32? Feb 1st?
<BobStJohn>	rld I see the message ..but .. not sure what you are saying?
<eOrion>	The industry is mooving to a fee for service model, heck you don't really own the software you have now anyway - its just a licence to use it!
<Fuzy|ogic>	I shelled out for the OS. I would buy another if they released it. No other OS has a fee based JDK.
<RLD>	'course FPs may not be in the sam league as uprades
<RLD>	BobStJohn: I was replying to Fuzy|ogic
<BobStJohn>	rld The way I see IBM's move is this. After Jan 31, 2001 .. the only supported OS/2 is the Convenience Pack. The only way you get the Convenience Pack is Software Choice. So, fixpacks for the Convenience Pack belong on Software Choice.
<RLD>	:)
<DSOMber1>	BTW, borg, open source JFS is being developed for both Linux and OS/2. So, in a way some open source tech will continue to improve OS/2 and eCS.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I guess Windows users have bought the same OS 3 times....
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Their view is that there is a new release .. but you buy Software Choice to get it.
<eOrion>	OpenSource is a little different, however even in this model the service model is becomming greater.
<RLD>	6 times imo Fuzy|ogic
<Fuzy|ogic>	emx rocks. Odin Rocks. If software choice is affordable, it rocks too. Serenity rocks.
<eOrion>	Im comming back, shareware chat session about to die :-)
<Fuzy|ogic>	Now, a new Compiler that supports SOM. That would rock even more....
<eOrion>	Back!
<Fuzy|ogic>	wb
<eOrion>	Fuzy wb?
<BobStJohn>	Well, I would not suggest that eCS users subscribe to IBM SWC
<Fuzy|ogic>	Welcome Back.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Then I won't.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I plan to use it if I can manage my Laptop from my WSeB home system...
<eOrion>	Fuzy|ogic I think we will further enhance eCS/OS/2 beyound what Soft. Choice will as we will be adding other elements from the Open Source world as well as native OS/2 / Java apps to improve the eCS offering over standard OS/2.
<DSOMber1>	Open the flood gates and let us drink from the deluge.
<eOrion>	The killer app in al this though is the Wisemanager/Server/Client technology for the corporates - as well as eventually home users....
<eOrion>	I guess one off shoot of all of this is that one day you may be using a device, a managed device, and not even realise its a descendent of eCS/WiseManager.
<eOrion>	(Im being optimistic here, we arent the only player in the devices field)
<eOrion>	Not that we are shooting at that goal quite yet! :-)
<paul_wtw>	reality starts with dreams
<DSOMber1>	In a way the MetaBox did something like that. OS/2 based web-tv-like appliance.
<RLD>	hehe... kickstart the car in the morning on those cold winter nights from your desktop so its warm when ya get in it :)
<DSOMber1>	Maybe someone could convince Diebold/Interbold/NCR/IBM and other ATM makers to look at eCS to upgrade their older OS/2 based solutions.
<BobStJohn>	rld You can do that today ... ask Kim.
<RLD>	yea I know but ya pay a price for it now.
<DSOMber1>	Weird silence....
<eOrion>	What does everyone think of having a Dual Thunderbird powered eComStation?
<DSOMber1>	eOrion - That would be sweet.
<Sector>	Sounds good to me
<eOrion>	Thats just one of the eComStation hardware platforms we are looking at for the near future :-)
<BobStJohn>	You guys ... (shakes head)
<BobStJohn>	Need persell to show up to get everyone back on track.
<DSOMber1>	But, I would sooner use a such a box for WiseManager rather than eCS.
<eOrion>	DSOMBer1 Both the same thing really!
<DSOMber1>	Yeah...I guess you are right.
<eOrion>	Except WiseManager as it stands, doens't have SMP support.
<eOrion>	With eCS it does!
<eOrion>	I should say more accurately with the eCS Managed Client it does!
<BobStJohn>	WiseManager is the adminstrative workstation application. eCS is the workstation. You can have eCS without WM ..or WM without eCS (since in can manage OS/2 and soon, Windows). But .. they are really designed to be used together.
<eOrion>	Bob Has Kim managed to lick drag & drop app support under a RPL'd Win client (assuming thats what your talking about.)
<eOrion>	Is anyone still here?
<paul_wtw>	think so
<DSOMber1>	Yes.
*	Chrissy is here
<Sector>	It's possible
<eOrion>	Thats good, hate to think I was talking to myself!
<BobStJohn>	eOrion It isn't Kim who will work on it. Micho Durdevich is the guy taking that on .. I'm just trying to figure out how to help him.
<DSOMber1>	Hmmm...maybe what I meant was WiseServer....or for that matter just WSeB for the moment.
<eOrion>	Ahh, OK. Its a big job to do, but he's making good progress so far. Its amazing how many options we are getting to run Windows apps :-)
<Fuzy|ogic>	Man, RealPlayer 7 doesn't want to work with the latest Odin I guess....
<eOrion>	Odin isn't perfect, but long term it will help running those legacy Windows apps.
<eOrion>	Bob, hows the eComStation web site going?
<BobStJohn>	eOrion You know .. I don't know. Kim has taken that on to himself .. and I'm not sure he has had much time to devote to it. My focus was on creating some material for the distributor sites.
<eOrion>	OK, Im getting my website updated with newer information, plus Ill use some of what youve sent already.
<eOrion>	Hopefully it will be completed by this time tommorow.
<eOrion>	It wont be anything super flash - but I think it will combine the message of WiseX with the products of eComX/WiseX.
<eOrion>	If anyone is interested the site is www.orion-solutions.com.au
<eOrion>	Just look in the Managed Client Section :-)
<BobStJohn>	eOrion Well, let me know what you need. Not to say I'll get it to you... you know the drill. I never sent the db2 6.1 stuff because db 7 came out.. btw .. you need all the docs .. or just the media.
<DSOMber1>	Looking...
<eOrion>	Both if possible
<Fuzy|ogic>	Kick ass! With the Flash plugin we can watch southpark on the Comedy central site...
<paul_wtw>	life is good
<BobStJohn>	Certainly possible .. just weigh a bunch. :-)
<BobStJohn>	Well, all ... you know I love you .. but it's getting to be enough for me.
<BobStJohn>	I think I've done all the damage I can do tonight.
<WarpedOS2>	Hi Bob,
<paul_wtw>	g'nite bob
<BobStJohn>	Thank you all for your time, interest, and continued support ...
<BobStJohn>	fine .. WarpedOS2 .. show up now!
<DSOMber1>	Thanks Bob.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Thanks Bob.
<WarpedOS2>	Sorry been busy....you get my email for the newsgroup?
<StevenL>	See ya Bob.
<BobStJohn>	No, no ... thank you!
<Chrissy>	night
<BobStJohn>	Good night .. again, I appreciate it.