| LHMaxson: | Better get the entertainment in early.
|
| {Guest-3}: | Bored already¨
|
| LHMaxson: | Projects?
|
| {Guest-5}: | I didn't read anything, sorry. What's Warpcity all about?
|
| {Guest-3}: | He's back
|
| MADodel: | who me¨
|
| LHMaxson: | Welcome, Mark.
|
| {Guest-2}: | WarpIcity
|
| MADodel: | Interesting that the numeric Enter key maps as a newline
|
| {Guest-5}: | Whoops, sorry. WarpIcity...
|
| LHMaxson: | Warpicity comes in three flavors.
|
| MADodel: | I'll take Chocolate
|
| {Guest-3}: | I'll take Chocolate and Marshmallow
|
| LHMaxson: | The flavors are proposal (plain vanilla), project (strawberry), and OS (Chocolate).
|
| LHMaxson: | Marshmallows only on the banana split.
|
| {Guest-5}: | Is it a model for software distribution?
|
| LHMaxson: | A serious guest-5 deserves a serious answer.
|
| LHMaxson: | It is a model for software development/maintenance/support.
|
| LHMaxson: | First, you must have the software in order to distribute it.
|
| {Guest-5}: | (I'm sorry for my low sense of humour... Here in Italy it's 1:41 in the morning.... and I have to wake up at 7!)
|
| Longstaff: | good evening projects
|
| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | Hello Lynn. Glenn Meadows here.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-5, we also do a similar thing on Webbnet on Saturday morning at 6am PDT, which makes it somewhat easier for you.
|
| LHMaxson: | It's on the SCOUG channel.
|
| LHMaxson: | Hi, Glenn, now I know we will practice safe sex.
|
| {Guest-5}: | Out of luck... I'll be far from my Internet connection next Saturday!
|
| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | HaHa.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-5, then you can access the log from the www.scoug.com website.
|
| {Guest-3}: | Notebook computer and cellular modem should fix that
|
| {Guest-5}: | ... and my name is Francesco. Thank you!
|
| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | Francesco, thanks for being up so early, or late as the case may be.
|
| LHMaxson: | Francesco, VOICE is more than willing to find a time more suitable for international members of the OS/2 community.
|
| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | Yes, the next one could be at an early AM time in the USA.
|
| {Guest-5}: | Ok, being you so sympathetic, I'll leave. I'll read the log ASAP. Please make it VERY dense!
|
| {Guest-7}: | I Vote for a more suitable time, Denmark in in the same timezone as Italy
|
| {Guest-5}: | Good night, folks!
|
| {Guest-3}: | the log from this session should be posted the the VOICE website
|
| LHMaxson: | I don't know what the 6am pdt translates into, but it was intended to allow both Europe and Australia participate at reasonable hours.
|
| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | I'm sure that it will be, as well as here and other places.
|
| {Guest-7}: | What is PDT?
|
| {Guest-3}: | PDT=GMT-7
|
| LHMaxson: | Pacific Daylight Time, that which we here in California enjoy.
|
| LHMaxson: | Aside from that you can reach me at my email address lmaxson@ibm.net. I will answer any questions.
|
| LHMaxson: | We have a few more moments before "official" start.
|
| LHMaxson: | Would anyone like to register any other time preferences?
|
| LHMaxson: | Also the Warpicity Project, section 20 of this OS2CFORUM is available to non-members for reading purposes.
|
| LHMaxson: | Ah, Larry is here.
|
| LarryF: | Hello everyone!
|
| LHMaxson: | Hello, Larry.
|
| LHMaxson: | Please inform them that I am neither Brad Wardell or Tim Sipples and not in negotiating anything with IBM.
|
| MADodel: | Is this the Bill Gates love fest¨
|
| LHMaxson: | I love Bill Gates. I will send him candy to ease his prison time. He made all this possible by making it necessary.
|
| Judy McDermott: | hello :)
|
| MADodel: | Hello judy
|
| Judy McDermott: | Hi Mark
|
| Judy McDermott: | I hope someone is able to log..I updated this "thing" and now I'm unable to log
|
| LarryF: | I've got 2 logs running
|
| Judy McDermott: | thx Larry :)
|
| Glenn Meadows: | There are several logs running.
|
| Judy McDermott: | great :)
|
| Longstaff: | well put LH
|
| LHMaxson: | Sometimes I too can deal in sound bites.
|
| LHMaxson: | Those fashionably late will have to catch up. Let's begin.
|
| LHMaxson: | Ah, Louis, glad you could make it.
|
| Judy McDermott: | VOICE would like to thank Larry for co-sponson soring our speakup on Compuserve
|
| Judy McDermott: | We would also like to than LHMaxson for being our guest speaker tonight
|
| Judy McDermott: | LHMaxson: would you like to give us a brief intro into your project and we'll go from there....
|
| LHMaxson: | ok.
|
| LarryF: | It's my pleasure to have everyone here. I have opened up the entire OS/2 Central forum to our guests, so please feel free to take a look around, and let us know if there's any way we can help.
|
| LHMaxson: | Warpicity is simply a name I gave to a replacement OS for OS/2, Linux, and MS OSes.
|
| LHMaxson: | Warpicity is the end result of the Warpicity Project.
|
| LHMaxson: | The Warpicity Project is the methodology introduced in the Warpicity Proposal at WarpStock98.
|
| LHMaxson: | The Warpicity Proposal covered a user organization, staffing, and methodology.
|
| LHMaxson: | Now where do you want to begin?
|
| {Guest-3}: | Let's start at the beginning, the creation of the universe
|
| {Guest-2}: | How long would WArpicity take to develop?
|
| LarryF: | Well ... maybe we should skip the first few thousand years and move right up to 1998 .
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-2, using Linux as a model or something properly funded?
|
| LHMaxson: | Remember Linux has been nine years in the making.
|
| LHMaxson: | Properly funded less than a year.
|
| {Guest-14}: | I think I'm Guest 14 = DaveW
|
| MADodel: | Why do we need Warpicity?
|
| Judy McDermott: | welcome DaveW!
|
| LHMaxson: | Ah, Dave, no compuserve membership?
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, if you are referring to the OS and not the methodology, Warpicity eliminates vendor OSes in favor of a community owned one.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | And why is that better? Isn't that more of a confusing approch?
|
| MADodel: | And how does that differ from Linux?
|
| LHMaxson: | The Warpicity Project, the methodology used to develop the OS reduces the cost of development and maintenance with a claimed "50 times time reduction, 200 times cost reduction".
|
| LHMaxson: | Two questions here. Let's take them separately.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | OK
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Why is this better?
|
| LHMaxson: | It differs from Linux in that it is true open source with no components not owned publically.
|
| LHMaxson: | Warpicity proposes the elimination of the software use license in any form.
|
| LHMaxson: | Warpicity gives each member full and unlimited access to the methodology, the tools, and the source. No restrictions on use.
|
| LHMaxson: | In effect each member has full rights of ownership.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | And full rights to modify?
|
| LHMaxson: | Yes.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Wouldn't that lead to a large array of incompatible versions that are cusom built?
|
| LHMaxson: | Unrestricted in Warpicity means unrestricted.
|
| {Guest-14}: | "ownership" of what? The code?
|
| LHMaxson: | No. It is impossible to produce incompatable source using Warpicity methodology.
|
| Louis McKinley: | Would it be possible for a group of members to run off on their own and start their own parallelproject?
|
| LHMaxson: | Louis, yes. Warpicity encourages full and open competition from any source.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Just features that might not be implimented in a particular version?
|
| LHMaxson: | As a user what's in your version is your choice.
|
| {Guest-14}: | kinda like Red Hat and Caldera?
|
| LHMaxson: | Red Hat and Caldera are distributors, not developers of an OS.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | So each person becomes his own developer in reality?
|
| MADodel: | They modify their distributions though
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Or COULD become.
|
| {Guest-14}: | (DaveW) The Linux distributors actually modify the code base to suit their design
|
| {Guest-2}: | OK, what does Warpicity have to do with OS/2?
|
| LHMaxson: | If a person chooses to be his own developer, Warpicity provides all that is necessary.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | OK. Still not sure why/how this is better, but I'm still open.
|
| Judy McDermott: | and what if the developer wants to provide his program as shareware?
|
| LHMaxson: | IBM owns OS/2. Any replacement would have to have a different name. I simply picked Warpicity.
|
| LHMaxson: | No restrictions are place on any developer with respect to his use or distribution of his code.
|
| {Guest-14}: | Actually, we did a trademark search, it appears IBM does NOT own the name Warp
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Does Warpicity mean that the line between application and OS disappear?
|
| {Guest-2}: | So Warpicity is an OS/2 clone...
|
| Judy McDermott: | sounds like "global" programming
|
| {Guest-14}: | (daveW) initially a clone, but since IBM isn't likely to deliver new versions, it will become the future of OS2
|
| {Guest-2}: | hmm...
|
| {Guest-14}: | Would Warp5 sound better?
|
| Louis McKinley: | Once the wheels of Warpicity is rolling, I take it then that the first project will be an operatingsystem?
|
| MADodel: | Will existing OS/2 applications run on Warpicity the OS?
|
| LHMaxson: | I'm sorry compuserve dropped my connection.
|
| {Guest-2}: | What development tools will be used and how does a developer become a part of it?
|
| LHMaxson: | Yes, existing OS/2 applications will run, Linux applications will run, MS OS applications will run.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Lynn my last question was "Does Warpicity mean that the line between OS and App goes away?"
|
| LHMaxson: | Fortunately there is only one tool, the Developer's Assistant, or DA.
|
| {Guest-2}: | What is the DA?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest 2, Developer's Assistant
|
| {Guest-2}: | Yes, but what is it?
|
| {Guest-2}: | Where do I get it?
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, the answer I think you mean is no.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | OK.
|
| Louis McKinley: | resending: Once the wheels of Warpicity is rolling, I take it then that the first project will be anoperating system?
|
| LHMaxson: | What is the Developer's Assistant?
|
| {Guest-2}: | yes
|
| LHMaxson: | The software development process is a seamless process. The Developer's Assistant is a tool that supports its seamless nature.
|
| LHMaxson: | To do that it must assume all clerical responsibility in the software development process.
|
| LHMaxson: | Louis, if there is an organization, Warpicity will produce whatever they direct.
|
| {Guest-2}: | Who makes the Developer Assistant?
|
| LHMaxson: | I propose that an organization of the user community fund and produce it.
|
| LHMaxson: | In reality anyone who chooses can do so.
|
| MADodel: | I choose to, but do not have the skills to do so
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, you can however join in the effort contributing $20 annually.
|
| {Guest-2}: | So, exactly how much of the needed tools and resources for Warpicity exist?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-2, none.
|
| Judy McDermott: | LHMaxson: how much funding and what resources would be needed to get this project off the ground?
|
| LHMaxson: | Judy, probably do it all on less than $100,000.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | That's pretty reasonable. Lower than I would have thought
|
| {Guest-14}: | lots of volunteer labor, I presume?
|
| LHMaxson: | When you have a methodology that allows 'build to order' to cost less than 'build to stock' it does cost less.
|
| Judy McDermott: | Guest-14 just volunteered labor?
|
| LHMaxson: | No volunteer labor. This is not Linux nonsense.
|
| LHMaxson: | You need to understand the time and cost reductions occur through shifting clerical support from manual to machine labor.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Guest 19 is Jeff Shultz
|
| LHMaxson: | There is nothing exotic or non-existent involved.
|
| Louis McKinley: | Does there exist a general agenda? What is happening now, and what it the next task on theagenda?
|
| Eric Henshaw: | Any progress yet in setting up the organisation?
|
| LHMaxson: | Once you see how that is done, how you have a seamless process supported by a seamless tool supported by a seamless data respository, it all falls into place.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | How long would it take to develop the DA and produce the first "cut" of the OS? Say you had all the funds tomorrow AM. Let's be hypothetical here.
|
| Judy McDermott: | LHMaxson: do you plan on presenting this again at Warpstock 99?
|
| LHMaxson: | Eric, no progress on the organization. Maybe VOICE. Maybe TeamOS2 Germany.
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, six months.
|
| {Guest-14}: | Lynn, there are lots of people who would kill us just to get a 10% productivity gain, much less 10000%
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Every time I see you discuss this, it reminds me how far I have to go in programming. I don't even understand your terminology "process" "tool" and "data repository" come up blank for me in this context. Do you have a glossary uploaded somewhere?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-14, yes and they overlooked their failure, IBM AD/Cycle. Warpicity is one form of a successful implementation of AD/Cycle.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Lynn, have you considered opening an "escrow" account to start to collect funds from interested parties?
|
| LHMaxson: | There is a software development process, usually occurring in stages of specification, analysis, design, construction, and testing. It is seamless in theory, discontinuous in practice. That's the problem.
|
| LHMaxson: | The point is to have a tool which supports the process as it exists in theory which says manual clerical activity is out.
|
| {Guest-19}: | So a self-documenting tool?
|
| LHMaxson: | If a tool supports the theory it must have and maintain a seamless set of data for use by the tool. That seamless set is the Data Repository.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Or am I off on what you mean by "clerical activity"
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, yes, self-documenting.
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, I don't want to collect any money.
|
| MADodel: | Can you start this without a full scale comittment of users? Create an initial alpha effort?
|
| LHMaxson: | I trust VOICE, SCOUG, or POSSI.
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, if you understand the methodology there is no alpha or beta, ever.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Sounds like the tool removes PHB's who break up "seamless" with go-nogo points.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Would the project be considered a "non-profit" organization?
|
| Judy McDermott: | LHMaxson: thank you for the vote of confidence!
|
| Louis McKinley: | Lynn, what part of the entire project do you accept responsibility for?
|
| Louis McKinley: |
|
| LHMaxson: | To be honest I don't need any resource outside of myself to complete it.
|
| MADodel: | Have you experience programming an OS in the past?
|
| LHMaxson: | It's not an issue of money. In my mind it is an issue of a community coming to the conclusion that it is somebody.
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, there is almost no area of software development in which I have not participated.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Ah... community... the problem is that communities need leaders, self appointed or otherwise. OS/2 sometimes lacks that.
|
| MADodel: | Well we do have plenty of rabble rousers
|
| Eric Henshaw: | Lynn, you may not want to collect money, but an "escrow" account would enable interested parties to showcommitment and provide a means of 'joining" the project.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, that's why it is easier to blame IBM or MS.
|
| {Guest-19}: | rabblerouser != leader. And LHMaxson - that's exactly correct.
|
| LHMaxson: | Do you not see it then as a challenge to the community, for the community, and by the community?
|
| LHMaxson: | Eric. You have existing representation more than capable of opening an escrow account.
|
| {Guest-19}: | It's a challenge for the people to recognize that they could be a community. I don't see enough cohesiveness throughout to be considered a community yet.
|
| LHMaxson: | We could hold a whole separate session on organizing the community with all its diversity.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Invite Esther S.... one of her favorite topics.
|
| LHMaxson: | I don't know if Esther is still talking to me.
|
| LHMaxson: | Eric, we need to understand that money talks even as it collects. It draws, as it were, interest.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxon: It takes a lot to get Esther to stop talking to someone completely. Anyway, you said that if you started tomorrow, you'd have an OS in 6 mos. What would that OS do?
|
| JudyM: | LHMaxdson: I think that would be a good BOF session for WS99
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Send Esther some choc.
|
| LHMaxson: | Judy, correct. It would make an even better regular session.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19. Let me go out on a limb here. That OS would do all that OS/2 does, Linux does, Windows does, and NT does in terms of application support.
|
| JudyM: | I think a presentation with Q/A would be great, followed up by a BOF session (roundtable) discussion
|
| LHMaxson: | A roundtable is somewhat simpler than a chat session.
|
| LHMaxson: | We are only at sixteen here. This is not a world beater.
|
| Eric Henshaw: | I didn't intend to infer that *you* collect money. I really supported Glenn's question about an escrow account. Certainlymoney talks and the 'kitty' *would* generate interest
|
| JudyM: | LHMaxson: I think the media might have some impact on the attendance
|
| JudyM: | We may invite you back for an IRC session on this topic
|
| LHMaxson: | This started out as an IRC invitation.
|
| LHMaxson: | If you are looking for a leader, get a business man.
|
| JudyM: | correct, but we received the cordial invitation from LarryF so that those in y;our forum here would also have access
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson - that's a long limb for 6 months.... you are _not_ indicating that it would run those binaries, are you?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, yes.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Just wanted to clear that up... would binaries have to be designed for it - or am I saying something obsolete under this plan?
|
| LHMaxson: | The IRC chat sessions are open 24 x 7. Pick a time. I will be there.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | As are these conference rooms. Always open.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, think micro-kernel, think multiple virtual machines, a virtual address for each machine.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Next one might be timed better for Europe..
|
| JudyM: | LHMaxson: want to shoot for a Sat. to accomodate the ppl from europe?
|
| {Guest-19}: | Super VMware?
|
| JudyM: | Guest-19: you mgiht have something there :)
|
| LHMaxson: | Saturday is fine. I am already on with Dave Watson on #SCOUG for Saturday at 6am pdt.
|
| Larry Finkelstein [Wizop]: Projects - your message isn't being reflected to the Java clients.
|
| JudyM: | again this week?
|
| LHMaxson: | Judy, yes.
|
| JudyM: | continuation of warpicity discussion?
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: So in 6 mos. you say that you would have a platform that we could run the OS/2 OS, the Win9x OS, and Linux on top of?
|
| LHMaxson: | Judy, yes. guest-19, yes.
|
| JudyM: | LHMaxson: ok, I'll get a posting out to VOICE news
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Okay, I blinked. How much horsepower would this theoretically require?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19 386 and above, 60 MHz, 64MB.
|
| {Guest-3}: | I don't recall any 60mhz 386's
|
| Glenn Meadows: | For just the OS, I presume. More to run the applications.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-3, then try 30MHz
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Okay, that's a requirement...what is reality? You aren't going to run Win95 on top of something else on a 386, much less while sharing it with one or more other OS's.
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, you are just too pessimistic, it includes everything.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, you are correct. I am going to run a better OS/2 than OS2, a better Linux than Linux, a better....well, you get the picture.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Are we not talking an emulation type of layer? The applications on top though would need the horsepower they normally need.
|
| LHMaxson: | No, we are not talking emulation.
|
| {Guest-14}: | Saturday's on #scoug 1300 GMT we discuss "warp systems"
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, you are correct about the applications.
|
| {Guest-14}: | ...which is coverall for Warpicity, benchmarks, etc
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Okay, then I did miss something. I won't need OS/2 to run OS/2 binaries on top of this, etc...?
|
| LHMaxson: | guest-19, true.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | OK. With the power in the hardware these days.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | The binaries would run on the Warpicity OS then, correct?
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, yes.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Okay, I did get it wrong. You are saying that in 6 mos you could have an OS that will run all of the above binaries, presumably graphically... what are you waiting for?
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Got it. Where do we send our $20?
|
| JudyM: | Glenn: need my address?
|
| Eric Henshaw: | That's my question also, Glenn!!
|
| Glenn Meadows: | If it's an escrow account, you got it.
|
| LHMaxson: | Judy, could VOICE consider this?
|
| JudyM: | LHMaxson: we would need to incorporate and work on some details...
|
| JudyM: | but it's not out of the question
|
| Glenn Meadows: | I would suggest a "trigger" level be picked before development could/would start.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, I suggest you take the time to peruse the Warpicity Project in this forum.
|
| JudyM: | possibly a joint project with SCOUG would be possible.....
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Say 50-60% of the projected cost
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: About that glossary (IOW, I tried following your discussions but it was like reading a language I recognized but did not understand)
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, I just wrote a response to Louis on CompuServe (or maybe Virta) that deals with producing the SL/I compiler. Once you have that the rest is easy.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, probably why I have low qualifications as a communicator.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | That's easy for you to say.
|
| MADodel: | SL/I compiler? A new language?
|
| {Guest-14}: | Lynn, maybe we need a marketing department
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, yes, one to replace Prolog.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: It's definitely better getting you "face to face" with short q &a's.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-14, no, you just need to beat them competitively.
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, pick a time convenient for you.
|
| Louis McKinley: | Lynn: I thought you were developing SL/I at present.
|
| LHMaxson: | Mark, it is not simply a new language. It is the only language necessary. No assembly required.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Let me get up to speed on the stuff in the library first - I suspect I'll want to make a list of questions.
|
| LHMaxson: | Louis, I am.
|
| LHMaxson: | I'm ready to answer any question, until, one, I am sure I understand you, and, two, you understand me.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Guest 19, don't forget to look at the messages in the Warpicity discussion section also. There is great stuff there besides juts the library.
|
| Louis McKinley: | Is the compiler part of the SL/I development, or is that a separate phase?
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: I'm pretty sure I've got most of them still on archive...
|
| LHMaxson: | You must understand that Warpicity methodology trounces on all existing paradigms.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Guest 19, oh yes, you're Jeff.
|
| {Guest-19}: | Glenn, Yep.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Lynn, I don't remember you saying if Warpicity would be a "Non-Profit" type of organization, or project.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Why hasn't the Warpicity methodology been used before if it will be capable of leaping tall buildings, etc... in a projected 6 mos.?
|
| LHMaxson: | Sorry, lost my connection again.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Lynn,
|
| LHMaxson: | yes.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Lynn, I asked if this would be considered a "Non-Profit" organization while you were 'away"
|
| {Guest-19}: | Glenn: Just checked, I've got OS2CFORUM back to 18 Oct 98...
|
| LHMaxson: | Glenn, certainly. It's subscription based.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Well, magazines are subscription based, and they're not non-profit.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Why hasn't this methodology been used before? Is it too revolutionary for a standard OS producing company?
|
| LHMaxson: | Guest-19, IBM attempted this methodology with AD/Cycle and failed to obtain the necessary cooperation, a political not technical failure.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Cooperation within IBM? What could they have been thinking?
|
| LHMaxson: | There is nothing revolutionary about it, unless you consider the changes, improvements, we have made to client processes revolutionary.
|
| LHMaxson: | Cooperation with IBM, all software vendors.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: I thought AD/Cycle was a development platform, not an entirely new OS?
|
| LHMaxson: | When it came down to their one responsibility, the Data Repository, IBM blew it big time because it does not have any other means at its disposal.
|
| {Guest-14}: | maybe IBM doesn't consider cheap software to be in its interests
|
| LHMaxson: | guest-19, AD/Cycle was a development platform. Warpicity is a realization of it. Having it means lowering the cost and time of development of the OS.
|
| MADodel: | Will you be bundling MSIE 5.0 as your exclusive web/help browser with this new OS? :-)
|
| LHMaxson: | guest-14, understand that a successful Warpicity will take both IBM and MS out of the software business.
|
| Glenn Meadows: | Opera maybe?
|
| LHMaxson: | If it is an application to an API, it will run.
|
| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here... there are certain dinosaurs with checkbooks that will guarantee MS and IBM stay in business.
|
| LHMaxson: | IBM will stay in business, just not the software business. It will find it in its interest to outsource it.
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| JudyM: | sure, VOICE can be bought, IF IBM commits to........
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| LHMaxson: | MS will not stay in business.
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| {Guest-14}: | SCOUG is not for sale
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| LHMaxson: | Is there a question on buying and selling here?
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| JudyM: | no, I was joking
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| {Guest-14}: | ...sorry. Just following up JucyM's comment
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| {Guest-14}: | ...scuse me, Judy's
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: MS shouldn't stay in business... but despite better alternatives, they seem to survive. Who knows - they might just realign and be your biggest software provider.
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| {Guest-14}: | or Janet Reno might realign them
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, if they are larger than a two-person firm, they will find their position non-competitive.
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| Glenn Meadows: | SEC will probably do a better job after they investigate their under reported incomd.
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| {Guest-19}: | Guest-14: I don't trust Janet Reno to do the right thing, albeit accidently.
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| {Guest-14}: | "central committees" seldom do
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| LHMaxson: | Look, just think what it means when the purchaser owns full rights to the source of any purchase.
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Two person software shops? Are we back to the non-monolithic object-oriented software module paradigm again?
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| {Guest-14}: | Lynn, it means the author has no motivation to produce more code
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| LHMaxson: | It's two person, because no more are necessary regardless of project scope.
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| Glenn Meadows: | Two might be one too many!
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| {Guest-14}: | ...one's a manager
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| LHMaxson: | guest-14, it means the user has every motive to purchase additional code of his choosing.
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| Glenn Meadows: | Beauracracy already!
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| Louis McKinley: | What size Warpicity membership will it take to unpin Microsoft?
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| {Guest-14}: | including the 500 lawyers?
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| LHMaxson: | Louis, all it will take is one SL/I compiler and the game is over.
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: You are saying that two people could reproduce MS Word (you know that people will want it) in a reasonable amount of time?
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: I guess I'm just having trouble wrapping my brain around SL/I being that easy or something.
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| {Guest-14}: | you can't "reproduce" it without violating copyrights
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| Glenn Meadows: | Some of you have been awful quiet. Does anyone have an unanswered question out there? Jump in, please.
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, you have two issues, development and maintenance. Development takes longer. Today maintenance can exceed development time and costs. Under Warpicity both costs will be reduced, more significantly for maintenance.
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| {Guest-19}: | Guest-14: Where did all those Look-and-Feel lawsuits end up?
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| {Guest-14}: | 19, I haven't tracked them, but they seem to have gone both ways
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, SL/I is easy. Moreover it's absolutely logical.
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| LHMaxson: | Stager, are you out there?
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: Well, lets get this going before I hit my senior year (2001/2002) in college - I want to blow away some professors with my senior project...
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| LHMaxson: | Glenn, did you get a response?
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| {Guest-19}: | Guest-14: That's what I thought... MS didn't have a problem by copying Apple, but Borland lost out copying Lotus..
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| LHMaxson: | Well, we held a party and the guests fought.
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| Glenn Meadows: | I was hoping some of the others who have been listening would jump in with some coments/questions. This is unmoderated, just a big group of people.
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| {Guest-14}: | Lots of computer related issues don't have clear case law, that's why you need big legal staff
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| LHMaxson: | That's why Warpicity deals with a specification-only approach.
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| Longstaff: | the broad legal conclusion was that look-and-feel can't be copyrighted
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: So, you've resisted talking about money, but so far I haven't heard exactly what you need to take the next step (whatever it might be - SL/I compiler?).
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| JudyM: | Lynn: as I understand, this would be a totally new programming language?
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| LHMaxson: | Specifications can't be copyrighted, trademarked, or made otherwise proprietary.
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| JudyM: | or just an OS that would run any language
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| {Guest-19}: | JudyM - I'm getting that it's both...
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| LHMaxson: | Judy, no, it's a specification language, not a programming language, that's why it can do everything include define itself.
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: I still see a legal argument coming out of MS - if you can run their binaries, then you had to have used something of theirs somewhere...
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| LHMaxson: | Judy, the OS will run any native Intel application regardless of platform written for without change.
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: And correct or not, they merely have to sufficiently baffle a jury.
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, wrong. If PETROS can do it, so can we.
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson: What is PETROS?
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| {Guest-14}: | IBM couldn't work a deal to license the Win32 APIs is why it's not in Warp
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| LHMaxson: | Just a minute. In that time just think. Think what it means to have the complete source to an OS and the tool to produce it as well as the means to extend it indefinitely.
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| {Guest-14}: | they have no programmers on Star Trek
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| {Guest-19}: | LHMaxson, it means that unless you have someone controlling it, you end up with Unix again.
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| JudyM: | Lynn: what have you done so far to work towards this OS?
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| LHMaxson: | The source is specifications. No one can prevent or protect the use of specifications. No MS. No jury.
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| {Guest-19}: | Guest-14 - sure they do, they are from the planet Binar..
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| {Guest-14}: | oh, we could do much better than unix
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| {Guest-19}: | Guest-14: I mean in having a million mildly different versions..
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| LHMaxson: | PETROS is a Windows replacement OS from Australia.
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| JudyM: | Lynn: how successful has it become?
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| JudyM: | or I should say popular
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| LHMaxson: | If and when this cuts off at 7pm pdt, I am switching to an IRC with #SCOUG. Anyone is welcome to join us there.
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| {Guest-14}: | 7pm PDT #SCOUG is the weekly Help Desk
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| LHMaxson: | Judy, I just read the announcement that they had an alpha version ready for release.
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| JudyM: | ah
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| LHMaxson: | Is guest-14 Dave?
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| {Guest-14}: | 14 = dave
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| JudyM: | Lynn: I just announced the 7pm move to #scoug in VOICE irc
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| LHMaxson: | That's why you are so smart.
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| LHMaxson: | This CS2000 session has quit on my twice. Next time I use OS2-CIM.
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| {Guest-19}: | OS2-CIM isn't likely to be more stable..
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| MADodel: | That will teach you to venture to the darkside
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| {Guest-14}: | on #voice theyr'e complaining about os2-cim probs
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| {Guest-19}: | I'm not finding anything on PETROS on the web.
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| JudyM: | probably more stable if used with vmodem and an inet connection
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| MADodel: | try www.trumpet.com
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, it appeared in the "For What It's Worth" section on this forum.
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| LHMaxson: | StevenL, you passing on nailing me?
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| {Guest-19}: | Ah, the Trumpet Winsock people...
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| LHMaxson: | guest-19, you know more than I know.
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| MADodel: | yes
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| JudyM: | I'd like to thank Lynn for being our guest tonight
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| {Guest-14}: | clap clap clap clap clap clap
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| JudyM: | that got cut off!
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| LarryF: | Thank you Lynn ... and thank you to VOICE!
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| LHMaxson: | Look SL/I is a replacement for Prolog, because IMHO Prolog syntax sucks. Once you get by the syntax you will find them functionally identical.
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| {Guest-19}: | Yes, thank you Lynn...
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| JudyM: | test
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| LHMaxson: | Oh, is it time for me to quit?
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| JudyM: | test
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| LHMaxson: | It's my pleasure.
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| {Guest-14}: | for now. I think this will continue
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| JudyM: | I can't see my input but I'll continue :)
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| {Guest-14}: | you going to Warpstock Lynn?
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| LHMaxson: | Until we meet again. Wiedersehen.
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| JudyM: | thanks to LarryF and Glenn Meadows for co-sponsoring this session on CIS
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| LHMaxson: | Yes, I am going to WarpStock. Wouldn't want to affect my perfect attendance record.
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| JudyM: | we'd also llike to invite everyone to our bi-monthly VOICE meetings
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| JudyM: | please check the VOICE homepage at www.os2voice.org for details
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| MADodel: | We have a special Speakup on the 24th don't we Judy?
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| JudyM: | I'm done
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| {Guest-14}: | Thanks all. this was interesting. Dave's off to #scoug and #voice
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| LHMaxson: | Well, I am going to join Dave. I want to thank VOICE as well. Larry has been excellent in support.
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| JudyM: | there :)
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| LarryF: | Thank you Lynn!
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| LHMaxson: | Larry, Glenn, let's do it again sometime.
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| JudyM: | thx folks, and nytol
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| LHMaxson: | Bye.
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| LarryF: | Whenever you're ready Lynn, I'll leave this conference room in place, and will continue to leave it open to non-CompuServe members.
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| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | does a little danceyes?w/b MarkCharles! :-)umm... what happened to guest 4 and 6?we in northwestern Canada don't enjoy 6am sessions though :-)specially on a Saturday, when I don't get up until the crack of noonare these conferences subject to lag like IRC?crack of noon :)or 1am PDT... usually awake thenHi LarryhahahahaJudy!/me is loggingI'm wondering if Judy can see me this time...in the beginning, there was DOS...LHMaxson: so the $20 annual is for those of us who can't contribute in other ways?more than sometimes...:-)but not at 6am PDT!heheheone, if that one's Bill GI've been trying to jump in, but no one can see me, so I remain "listening"Larry, My Inet connection went duff for the last few minutes.
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| Longstaff: | compuserve warp access tools clearly need upgrading :(
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| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | We are hoping that a later version of the Web software will allow member access directly.
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| Longstaff: | ahh, i wasn't going to mention the activeX member authentication
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| Glenn Meadows [Sysop]: | There is a proxy server available that allows member to use NN/2 to access, but the Chat server needs authincation
|