SpeakUp DFSee Session 1 - September 11, 2004
Note:
<DFSee|JvW> = Jan van Wijk
<eCSNL> = Roderick Klein
SpeakUp started at 18:01:30 EDT
<eCSNL> Well there is no escaping it now ladies and gentlemen...
SpeakUp ended at 20:07:01 EDT
<eCSNL> I'm pleased to welcome you to first VOICE speakup we have had since quite some time.
<eCSNL> Is there anybody who can keep a log ?
<PsiFire> sure
<eCSNL> Well turn on logging.
<DFSee|JvW> I am too
<PsiFire> one sec
<PsiFire> never done it in oc/2 before
<eCSNL> Jan is already keeping a log.
<eCSNL> So lets get started.
<KenKrchnr> Logging here as well
<eCSNL> I will be your host tonight Roderick Klein
<eCSNL> and we have a guest
<PsiFire> okay
<PsiFire> will need to look that one up for next time
<eCSNL> please give a virtual applause for Jan van Wijk
* eCSNL falls of the stage and opens the curtains
<eCSNL> Jan welcome.
* PsiFire claps loudly
<eCSNL> Thanks for staying up this night.
* eJoJo claps as well
<DFSee|JvW> Hi all. this is Jan van Wijk ...
<eCSNL> For the people who don't know you. I suggest you just introduce your self futher and tell a bit about your software.
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, I see the applause is starving out now :-)
<DFSee|JvW> OK, a short introduction first
* eCSNL hands over the microphone to Jan.
<DFSee|JvW> I am a software-engineer with a background in DOS, OS/2, NT and UNIX/Linux system programming, system integration, networking, communications and WEB technology.
<DFSee|JvW> Started as a programmer with a multi-national over 20 years ago developing telephone-exchange firmware.
<DFSee|JvW> Been working as a (progStarted as a programmer with a multi-national over 20 years ago developing telephone-exchange firmware.ramming :-) consultant for about 15 years with a large softwarehouse.
<DFSee|JvW> First encounter with OS/2 (then called DOS 10 :-) in 1988 when I joined the development team for the Query-Manager, part of what later would be DB2 for OS2.
<DFSee|JvW> Developed a REXX-subset compiler/interpreter for that because the 'official' REXX subsystem was not ready yet.
<DFSee|JvW> Did a lot of OS2 system-integration and some programming for a project where over 8000 desptop systems needed to migrate from a DOS to an OS2 based environment.
<DFSee|JvW> The last few years in that project I actually developed a small program called DHPFS, to analyse and examine low-level HPFS disk-structures :-)
<DFSee|JvW> I quit that consulting job in 2001 to take a sabbatical leave; Still trying to decide when to end that ...
<DFSee|JvW> Actually I started my own company 'FSYS Software' after a few months to allow me to do freelance work and develop and sell my own products.
<DFSee|JvW> Hope you guys can keep on with the reading :-) Any questions sofar ?
<DFSee|JvW> Otherwise I'll say a bit about DFSee history
<WarpedOS2> sounds good
<DFSee|JvW> As said, DFSee started out as a small utility to display some HPFS structures.
<DFSee|JvW> I added some partitioning logic over time because we needed batch-wise partitioning capability from a DOS boot-disk.
<DFSee|JvW> Since all of that was developed in my own time anyway, I later used those fragments to build a more generic disk analysis and partitiong tool, DFSee.
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee is designed to be as generic as possible, without much operating-system specific interface being used.
<DFSee|JvW> As a result, almost all functionality is available in all the versions, so you can do NTFS related maintenance from DOS, OS2 or Linux if you wish
<DFSee|JvW> The most important features are: partitioning, file-recovery, partition-recovery, imaging, cloning and interactive analysis
<DFSee|JvW> The single most-used feature in DFSee is the ability to find lost partitions and recreate them without loss of data (DFSDISK procedure)
<DFSee|JvW> Development of DFSee continues, new features are being added and bugs are being fixed. There is about one minor release every month ...
<DFSee|JvW> All minor releases (like all 6.xx versions) are FREE downloadable upgrades.
<DFSee|JvW> I plan to have about one MAJOR release a year, hopefully with some significant new functionality :-) Upgrading to a new MAJOR release does require you to pay an upgrade fee.
<DFSee|JvW> The latest big additions to DFSee have been the MOVE/COPY commands and menu-items, and the release (yesterday) of the native Linux executable.
<DFSee|JvW> OK, lets have some questions, and then some on future plans for DFSee ...
<jt> When and what is 7.xx?
<DFSee|JvW> Not written into stone yet, but WHEN is probably early 2005, and WHAT is some more JFS and EXT2 support to start with.
<jt> Also, do you ever see resizing capabilities that come close to PQMagic?
<WarpedOS2> What you mean by JFS support. You can clone drives now including JFS right?
<jt> FAT32 and NTFS are the major ones, because of Win preloads that pig the whole disk!
<DFSee|JvW> Perhaps, the problems is, I KNOW I would have to invest a couple of months worth of work into that, it requires a lot of analysis (reverse engineering) and it is somewhat of a moving target when MS decides to add/change stuff ...
<jt> Sigh. I understand.
<PsiFire> so how does your software compare now to the likes of PartMagic and Ghost?
<PsiFire> resizing would definatly be a big seller
<eJoJo> resizing works already pretty well
<PsiFire> but we're patient people...:->
<DFSee|JvW> OK, FAT32 is a bit easier. However, to be really usefull I need to REORGANIZE the data towards the begin of a partition first, and that is a challenge in itself (for NTFS at least)
<WarpedOS2> Can you already clone jfs partitions?
<DFSee|JvW> PsiFire: Did you mean how it compares ?
<PsiFire> yes....
<DFSee|JvW> OK, I'll answer that first then
<PsiFire> could DFSee be a competitive replacement for the likes of PartMagic and Ghost?
<DFSee|JvW> At the moment not really, it is what can be termed an "extended subset" :-)
<DFSee|JvW> Meaning it has lots of usefull features that are NOT in any of those, but there are also quite a few important things that DFSee can NOT do yet, or is not very good at ...
<DFSee|JvW> One thing, for some users, is the user-interface which is not point-and-click yet.
<eJoJo> it actually has had a great improvement with the menu system, thanks for that Jan!
<PsiFire> any plans for a GUI of sorts? or owuld that ruin the platform independence?
* eJoJo can actually understand and use it now :-)
<DFSee|JvW> About resizing, DFSee can SHRINK partition for FAT, HPFS and NTFS as long as there is free space at the end (it will not reorganize yet)
<jt> I shudder at the prospect of P&C (GUI) - bloat and quirkiness... Just my own viewpoint.
<MikeG> So... I can image a disk, be it Linux, OS/2, Windows, and restore it from any of these OSs?
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee can make HPFS and NTFS partitions LARGER
<PsiFire> jt: one would hope it owuld just be an option
<DFSee|JvW> There are some issues with resizing NTFS bootable Windows however, it works 90% of the time and fails to come-up in other cases, requiring recovery.
* PsiFire horked a Win2k boot bartition recently with a Partition Magic 8.0 rescue disk
* PsiFire was rather unhappy
<PsiFire> thankfully it was just a base install that was easily redone
<DFSee|JvW> OK, about the GUI, I DO have vague plans to offer that sometime, but not in DFSee itself, a GUI version would probably be a reduced function (simpler) off-spring from DFSee
* Hawklord has nothing but praise for your product
* PsiFire downloaded the samples today and plans to check it out more later
<jt> Praise the product and more for the support!
<PsiFire> if I were to choose tho, I'd rather see more function in the product than fancy grahpcis/GUI
<DFSee|JvW> For a GUI version I am thinking of using a platform-neutral library like WxWidgets, to be used on OS2, Win and Linux
<WarpedOS2> So DFSee|JvW can I clone a hd that has HPFS, JFS partitions on it to another HD
<DFSee|JvW> I would like more functionality too, and that will be there don't worry :-)
<DFSee|JvW> OK, I'll get into the cloning questions now.
<DFSee|JvW> The first one, can I clone a JFS partition ?
<PsiFire> don't get me wrong, not complaining about present abilities....
<WarpedOS2> Yes..can it be done - JFS
<DFSee|JvW> The answer is, Yes if it is a SINGLE-partition JFS volume. You can use the new MOVE/COPY functionality to move or copy that elsewhere, and it will update the partition-tables as well as the LVM-information for you.
<DFSee|JvW> Moving or Copying a MULTI-partition volume will FAIL, allthough the situation is most often recoverable (with some support help :-)
<DFSee|JvW> The second question, can I clone a disk with JFS and some more on it ?
<DFSee|JvW> The answer is, Yes you have always been able to clone that using DFSee.
<DFSee|JvW> However, you get what you ask for, an EXACT CLONE on another disk, with DUPLICATE volumename, driveletters and so on, so you need to move that copied-disk out, or change some of thos values to be usefull.
<DFSee|JvW> It can be quite usefull to CLONE a complete system however, and as a disaster-recovery backup
<DFSee|JvW> Did I miss any questions ?
<eJoJo> it would be cool if that worked on 'any' media
<eJoJo> i.e. USB attached ;-)
<eJoJo> (evil question..)
<DFSee|JvW> Yes I know, at the moment I depend fully on operating system support to access those ...
<Hawklord> Is it possible to take away one partition from a JFS volume?
<PsiFire> How does DFSee fall into the picture in regards to SVista?
<eJoJo> but does it work?
<DFSee|JvW> I might investigate accessing some of that stuff using FreeDOS and (more or less) freely available drivers
<eJoJo> I wouldn't mind if it worked with eCS only :-)
<eJoJo> can that be done?
<DFSee|JvW> Taking away a partiton from a JFS volume will not really work, it leaves you with an inconsistens volume. For the moment you'll have to use LVM.EXE or backup/restore tactics.
<eJoJo> I mean cloning to an external drive attached over USB or firewire
<eCSNL> That is already possible.
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee will CLONE to any disk thatbis considered to be a HARDDISK by OS2 itself
<DFSee|JvW> It will IMAGE to any driveletter (volume) that it has normal file-access to (like a network drive)
<eJoJo> ok
<eJoJo> cool
<PsiFire> How does DFSee fall into the picture in regards to SVista?
<DFSee|JvW> So for CLONING, you need a driver that presents the USB disk as partitionable-media to OS2
<DFSee|JvW> OK, SVista
<DFSee|JvW> Since SVista emulates/virtualizes a complete PC, DFSee will work in an SVIsta guest if that is running DOS, OS2, Win or Linux :-)
<eJoJo> SVISTA please, the branding has to be SVISTA thanks..
<DFSee|JvW> OK, SVISTA :-)
<eJoJo> ;-)
<MADodel> Can the image created by DFSee be used as an SVISTA container?
<PsiFire> cool
<DFSee|JvW> Perhaps you can use DFSee to do some usefull things for the SVISTA host as well, but I have not reallu checked that yet.
<DFSee|JvW> I think that is possible, you can create RAW images with DFSee that are not compressed at all, and I think SVISTA can use those.
<DFSee|JvW> Note however that these will be as LARGE as the disk they represent!
* PsiFire still needs to mess around with images for SVISTA
<MikeG> When I image a drive - can DFSee break it up into set sizes?
<DFSee|JvW> Someone made a small tool that will convert between DFSee RAW, SVISTA and some form of Virtual-PC containers
<DFSee|JvW> Imaging:
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, at least if what you mean is create multiple files for a single disk/partition, where each file will fit a floppy, CDROM, DVD or whatever ...
<Hawklord> What does SVISTA look like on the disk? Is it a special volume?
<DFSee|JvW> You can specify to LIMIT the size of the created image-files, and it will automatically switch from .IMZ to .002, .003 and so on ...
<MikeG> Yes.. thanks
<DFSee|JvW> I dont know the SVISTA fileformat, but most likely it is a simple FILE, not a filesystem/volume.
<Hawklord> But a file can be 2 Gibyte only?
<DFSee|JvW> They probably have options to COMPRESS that conatiner-file (making it unsuitable to work with DFSee).
* PsiFire wishes SVISTA could boot from a CD
<DFSee|JvW> SVISTA is NOT an operating system, it can't boot on its won, it needs a HOST operating system.
<eJoJo> Hawklord - SVISTA has a harddisk container which is just a single file to the host OS
<DFSee|JvW> Files are limited to 2GiB on HPFS and FAT and could be larger on JFS.
<eJoJo> correct
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee DOES support files over 2GiB, but the destination has to be JFS in that case ...
<DFSee|JvW> OK, more questions ?
<MikeG> Last one for me...
<WarpedOS2> currently can DFSee clone a Windoz XP NTFS partition
<MikeG> If you are going to release 7.0 early next year .... why shouldn't I wait until then to buy... I want to buy for the imaging..
<WarpedOS2> Have you ever thought of DFSee able to multicast to serveral system to image?
<DFSee|JvW> OK, one by one ...
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee can clone Windows-XP NTFS partitions. CLONING is a simple sector-by-sector copy, and does NOT depend on contents
* PsiFire rephrases.....i wiahs SVISTA could boot a host from a CD....:->
<WarpedOS2> So then could I essentially clone a Novell hd
<DFSee|JvW> I do that all the time to keep a backup on a second disk that I can CLONE back if my main one decides to fail ...
<WarpedOS2> Sorry...I need to clarify it when I mean multicast, push out images over IP
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, cloning a Novell HD should be no problem, as long as you can boot that system with one of the operating systems that will run DFSee
<WarpedOS2> Hey...thanks that is great news...
<DFSee|JvW> About version 7.0 and waiting for it ...
<WarpedOS2> or use your bootable cd
<DFSee|JvW> Of course you can wait, and it will save you a few dollars. I just depends on what you need
<DFSee|JvW> Buying the full version (first time buyer) is arround 50 dollars at the moment, and version 7 will not be much more.
<DFSee|JvW> Upgrading from one major version to the next is about HALF the price for a full version.
<WarpedOS2> Just a few weeks ago I purchased your DFSee
<DFSee|JvW> In the mean time, you can download ALL minor upgrades for free and use them with your registration
<DFSee|JvW> WarpedOS2: was that a statement, or the start of question ?
<WarpedOS2> Your tool to apply the registration before you burn from the ISO is a great Idea
<WarpedOS2> Just a statement
<Felix> does it work on Linux?
<WarpedOS2> I like yoiur product better than Ghost..
<Felix> I only do my burning and downloading with Linux
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, that tool was the only way to allow people to download the ISO and really use it :-)
<DFSee|JvW> It also allows me to sell UNIQUE (individual) branded CDs quite easy.
<PsiFire> i was wondering how one changed the serial on the ISO
<DFSee|JvW> And, Yes, as of yesterday, there is a program called 'ikeyiso' that runs on linux :-)
<PsiFire> nice
<Felix> :-)
<WarpedOS2> Would it be difficult to have an image sent to say 10 different identical systems over IP, like a master slave mode or something like that
<DFSee|JvW> The 'serial' on the CD is really just the contents of a file (dfsee.key), and I simply search that and replace the contenst in the ISO file
<DFSee|JvW> OK, multicasting.
<WarpedOS2> yes...multicasting
<Felix> Yikes! Ivan is now 165 MPH :-(
<WarpedOS2> like Ghost does
<DFSee|JvW> OK, under the tables then!
<Felix> Under my tables it floods :-(
<DFSee|JvW> Multicasting is not supported by DFSee itself, and I think it is hard to support at the moment.
<WarpedOS2> Ok...fair enough
<DFSee|JvW> This is because DFSee itself has no built-in IP connectivity, it just uses whatever network connection you have, be it SMB or TCP/IP based.
<DFSee|JvW> There will be SOME optimisation in some of those protocols if you sned the same contents to many recepients, but not much.
<DFSee|JvW> To implement multi-cast, DFSee would need to implement its own protocol on top of IP
<WarpedOS2> Oh really
<DFSee|JvW> OK, more question that I missed, or new ones ?
<PsiFire> well i definatly look forward to the resizing
<DFSee|JvW> It is already there, just not realy on-par with Partition-Magic and some others :-)
<DFSee|JvW> Any developers here (hi Steve :-) ?
<PsiFire> so what do you have planned again for 7.xx?
<PsiFire> I'd love to develop but need to learn programming again....:->
<DFSee|JvW> OK, DFSee future ...
<DFSee|JvW> When the dust from the Linux release setles, I plan to work on some filesystems again, with JFS and EXT2/3 and perhaps ReiserFS as main topics
<DFSee|JvW> Features to be implemented for that are some FIX commands for superblocks and so on, and file-recovery
<DFSee|JvW> Significant updates in that area would probably be released for version 7.xx sometime next year.
<DFSee|JvW> For the long term, there might a real GUI (graphical interface) for OS2, Win and Linux and perhaps just with the major features that are now in DFSee.
<DFSee|JvW> A product like that would need to be easier to use than the current DFSee, needing less inside knowledge or guidance from an expert.
<DFSee|JvW> It is also possible that new OSs like FreeBSD or even MAC-OS (Panther) will be looked at ...
<Hawklord> I was going to ask if it supports FreeBSD file system.
<PsiFire> what does FreeBSD use for a filesystem?
<DFSee|JvW> No, not yet, I think it DOES recognise the type, but nothing inside the filesystem. I would probably add that when making a FreeBSD version ...
<DFSee|JvW> I am not sure what it is called, but it is a further developed version of the classic UNIX filesystem. I think SUN has something very similar too.
<StevenL> Hi Jan. Just got back from a honey-do session. Now I'm caught up on the log. :-)
<DFSee|JvW> Hi Steve. OK, did you see the developer question ?
<DFSee|JvW> I am playing with the idea of opening up parts of my UI library ...
<StevenL> Sorta, but I suspect I missed the context.
<Hawklord> I am a developer too...
<StevenL> That might be useful for folks doing VIO apps.
<StevenL> Hard to say where it sits in the scheme of things in terms of what OS/2 needs in the way of tools.
<DFSee|JvW> Context, see line above. The point is, I have put quite some effort in building that text-mode menu and dialog-based UI, and two things are bothering me a bit:
<DFSee|JvW> 1) It is a shame that developers would need to re-invent the weel for similar interfaces
<DFSee|JvW> 2) There is no 'sharing' of development power, me (and DFSee) could benefit from sharing as well, like if someone would add mouse-support :-)
<PsiFire> mouse support to a VIO session?
<DFSee|JvW> What do you all think ?
<StevenL> True. One of the things that was missing from Henk Kelder's checkini release was the code for the UI library.
<Felix> mouse reminds me of Partition Magic in windoze :-p
<StevenL> I toyed with reimplementing it, but it never reached the top of the list.
<Felix> don't need no stinkin mouse for DFSee
<wdl> Jan: Mouse-support YES. Share code: YES!!
<StevenL> I don't need mouse support, but I tend to be in the minority.
<DFSee|JvW> OK, the problem is, I would not want to release it with something like GPL since I feel I would loose control ...
<StevenL> I got along just fine without the menus. :-)
<Felix> meetoo
<ShadwWulf> What part of control would you lose?
<Hawklord> loose or lose control
<Hawklord> ?
<Felix> income prolly
<DFSee|JvW> OK, the mouse is just an example, there are lots of new 'controls' and other behaviour to be added :-)
<StevenL> Well, opening the source is by definition a form of giving up control.
<ShadwWulf> DFSee|JvW: have you looked at LGPL?
<StevenL> You might consider LGPL or the Mozilla license.
<StevenL> Yes.
<DFSee|JvW> No, it is not really about icome, allthough I would hate to see other make profits from it, it is the amount of management required
<StevenL> Well, once you open it up, what's to manage?
<DFSee|JvW> I have not checked LGPL in detail no ...
<Felix> Please don't sell it to Norton!!!
<ShadwWulf> LGPL is basically the GPL except you can use it linked again commercial/non-GPL apps
<Felix> Norton is death.
<DFSee|JvW> Felix: I would NOT be selling DFSee or open that up, just the UI part ...
<Felix> subsumation
<Felix> assimilation
<DFSee|JvW> Well, I guess my point is, I would like to keep in touch with 'the other developers' for mutual benefit, without having a huge management burden somehow ...
<StevenL> Hopefully, those that make enhancements will have the ethics to past them back to you.
<StevenL> past -> pass.
<PsiFire> maybe setup a CVS for the UI only?
<DFSee|JvW> I guess I'll have that discussion again at Warpstock in about 6 weeks from now :-)
<StevenL> PsiFire, that just provides access. It really does nothing for control.
<Felix> Warpstock needs a cable connection so people like Jan don't have to get lost for two weeks or more to support.
<StevenL> Now, if Jan wanted to he, could set up a closed CVS and control who he allows to access the code.
<StevenL> However, that's really not quite open source.
<Hawklord> InJoy firewall has (or had) a text-mode UI too, a good one.
<PsiFire> that it did
<Hawklord> Sorry I meant dialer
<DFSee|JvW> Steven, that could be a good idea, however, I can't host a CVS repository at my ISP I think ...
<PsiFire> is there a controllable CVS?
<StevenL> Yes. It is called CVS.
<PsiFire> look to netlabs perhaps?
<PsiFire> doh...of course...:-&
<StevenL> Sorry. Couldn't resist.
<PsiFire> but then why does it do nothing for control?
<DFSee|JvW> The official 'open source' status is not of much importance to me. It is being able to share development effort ...
<MADodel_> Felix: There will be some internet access for attendees at Warpstock in the Exhibit area.
<StevenL> In that case, perhaps a by request CVS repository is a good way to go.
<DFSee|JvW> To be usefull, using CVS (or any other variation) reuires some planning ahead an maintenace (a librarian)
<DFSee|JvW> that was 'requires' :-)
<ShadwWulf> defining the terms of code sharing up front is vital. If it's not defined you end up with somebody swiping the code and no recourse
<Felix> MADodel as long as Jan knows that ;-)
<DFSee|JvW> About Internet access at Warpstock, I can access the dfsee-support group from any browser, but would need a cable connection, and an SMTP server for full email-support.
<StevenL> Recourse is in the mind of the beholder, especially when the person(s) you want to go after are half way around the world.
<MADodel_> We just can't allow the limitless access that there has been in past events.
<StevenL> Setting up a CVS respository and managing is pretty simple. There are a number of folks around the understand the process.
<DFSee|JvW> Yes I understand that, I think the hotel offers some cable access in the rooms too, not sure about SMTP
<MADodel_> We can always setup an SMTP server. CHuck McKinnis has done that in the past
<PsiFire> so hook up a wireless AP in your room and hnag it out the window....:->
<eCSNL> The speakup is more then half way now.
<PsiFire> 2 hour event?
<StevenL> Isn't the SMPT issue a matter of whether or not the ISP will accept an out of network SMTP connection?
<DFSee|JvW> Steven: I'll get back to you by email (or at Warpstock for sure)
<eCSNL> May I note that this is going of topic
<StevenL> OK.
<eCSNL> warpstock and SMTP severs!
<Steven> LSo, ask an on topic question. :-)
<DFSee|JvW> OK, how about DFSee class and presentations at Warpstock ?
<DFSee|JvW> Any on-topic questions?
<StevenL> I wouldn't mind discussing some resizing options that dfsee might be able to implement.
<DFSee|JvW> Ok, go ahead ...
<StevenL> Since resize in place is hard, perhaps there are relatively easy to implement alternatives.
<PsiFire> IS there an optimize partitioon option in DFSee?
<PsiFire> kind of like defragging
<DFSee|JvW> No, no OPTIMIZE yet, there might be one someday though ...
<PsiFire> that would be cool to see
<StevenL> One idea I had which is based on having sufficient free space is to move files to a holding volume and then copy back after adjusting the partition size.
<PsiFire> I know HPFS doesn't defrag in the traditional sense, but optimizing it would be nice
<DFSee|JvW> Steven: I do not think the problem with resizing is the in-place aspect, it is knowing EXACTLY what every cluster is, and to what other structures it is related too or rferenced by
<StevenL> This would sort of be like a two way dsync with a resize in the middle.
<StevenL> That's why I'm suggesting working at the file level.
<DFSee|JvW> The two-way sync (files copy) would not really work at the moment since it looses information, not all the file properties (like NTFS attributes)
<DFSee|JvW> are present on the copy, and not all operating systems would support reading/writing them.
<StevenL> How difficult is this to add, compared to being able to reorg at the cluster level?
<StevenL> I expect there to be limitations, but they might not be show stoppers.
<DFSee|JvW> You need 100% certainty you have caught ALL references to in-use clusters before doing either one ...
<DFSee|JvW> The problem is that READING file-data from a complex filesystem is LOTS easier than creating or adding to such a filesystem.
<DFSee|JvW> It is not a coincidence that many FS-drivers stay read-only for years (or forever :-))
<StevenL> How about if you limit resizing to when you booted to OS that supports the filesystem natively?
<DFSee|JvW> That might help in the case of your 'two-way dsync', but I don't really like that idea ...
<DFSee|JvW> This would be something to split-off perhaps and put in a dedicated utility
<DFSee|JvW> OK, anything else ?
<os2-007> hmmmm
<Hawklord> Good night everybody
<PsiFire> night Hawklord
<DFSee|JvW> So, are we all staring at the screen now ? ;-)
<os2-007> sorry being here late, is dfsee has the abilities of the old partition magic version 3 mover copying and resizing jfs volumens ?
* eJoJo is
<DFSee|JvW> os2-007: Some of that yes, it CAN MOVE or COPY JFS volumes that just have a SINGLE partition. It cannot do multi-partitions very well yet, and it can NOT resize JFS either ...
* PsiFire is drooling over dinner
<DFSee|JvW> More JFS support is planned for version 7.xx, but I am not sure that resizing is doable by then.
<PsiFire> so it can't expand JFS either?
<PsiFire> mmmm....chili
<os2-007> ahhhh, is there a cdrom version of dfsee now or iso , and how much does it cost?
<DFSee|JvW> No, no resizing at all. The onlu EXPAND that you can do (with LVM) is really just ADDING another partition to your volume ...
<DFSee|JvW> About COST:
<PsiFire> so you can't expand HPFS or FAT either?
<os2-007> yeah the volumes are complicated, resizing movieing and copy partition for jfs is a challenge now, not like the hpfs which was more flexable
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, there is a CDROM version, you can buey a ready made 8cm mini-CD (includes a registration) at the Mensys shop (47 Euro) and if you already have a registration, you can download an ISO image and burn it yourself.
<os2-007> awesome
<DFSee|JvW> More details can be found on my website: http://www.dfsee.com and the links to the Mensys shop from there.
<os2-007> DFSee|JvW: is there any resailers in the usa for it like bmtmicro ?
<os2-007> loading
<eJoJo> mensys ships worldwide
<eJoJo> and takes all major creditcards
<DFSee|JvW> The CDROM is a BOOTABLE one, that boots FreeDOS and has a fully operational DFSDOS version, but it also has the other versions, to be installed on the HD perhaps.
* MikeG Thanks for all the info
<DFSee|JvW> PsiFire:, HPFS CAN be expanded, FAT or FAT32 can not (at the moment)
<os2-007> awesome it clones and images too ;)
<eJoJo> http://www.ecomstation.biz/cgi-bin/db2www/biz_art2.d2w/report?catname=DFSee
<DFSee|JvW> For the people attending Warpstock, I will probably bring some CDs with me, that you can get there with a small discount.
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, CLONING and IMAGING is probably the second biggest use for DFSee, after partition-recovery. Some large companies are using it for roll-out and disaster-recovery.
<DFSee|JvW> One large anti-virus company uses it to clean amd reinstall their testsystems quickly :-)
<DFSee|JvW> OK, no more questions ?
* MikeG Once again thanks - you sold me
<DFSee|JvW> OK, that never hurts :-)
<eCSNL> I was briefly away.
<DFSee|JvW> OK, well I think we are about done here ...
<eCSNL> I'm getting the impression (correct if I'm wrong). Jan has told everything he could think of :-)
<os2-007> DFSee|JvW: thanks ;)
<chili> MAdodel...I joined late. Will this chat be at "voice"?
<DFSee|JvW> There are still some things todo before it equals Partition-Magic, but I am slowly getting there ...
<PsiFire> is there a version of DFSee that one can use as a sample before buying?
<PsiFire> ie...does the downloadable version work for a short time then expire?
* PsiFire was out marinading some shripms
<os2-007> DFSee|JvW: yes we need it for jfs and the volumes, partition magic saved me in a lot of situations in the past , we need dfsee for jfs and volujmes now, it can be better than partition magic
<PsiFire> shrimps
<PsiFire> does DFSee do all the things that LVM can?
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, you can always download the latest version, without a registration it will expire 62 days after creation (when I compile it :-)
<PsiFire> I've always found LVM a little hard to navigate around and use
<PsiFire> gotcha
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee does not do EVERYTHING that LVM does yet, the two most important things missing are:
<DFSee|JvW> 1) CREATION of LVM/JFS volumes (it will create COMPATIBILITY ones just fine)
<DFSee|JvW> 2) Handle multi-partition LVM/JFS volumes with COPY/MOVE operations
<DFSee|JvW> The first one is solvable, just some time to invest there. The second is more difficult.
<PsiFire> well, you definatly seem to be on the right track
<DFSee|JvW> The LVM user-interface suffers from its logical/physical seperation that most people don't undrstand ...
<DFSee|JvW> OK, thanks
<PsiFire> thats exactly the difficulty that i have with it
<PsiFire> I'm always afraid I will mess something up
<PsiFire> but so far I've been successful with enough tip toeing around
<DFSee|JvW> OK, well you can use DFSee to 'look arround'. If you are paranoid, it even has a "make read-only" menu-item in the File menu.
<DFSee|JvW> The 'read-only' meaning DFSee will NOT write to the disks ...
<PsiFire> well now that's handy
<DFSee|JvW> OK, anyone ?
<PsiFire> Beuller?
<PsiFire> what do you use to code DFSee? you said Watcomm right?
<DFSee|JvW> Any remaining questions can be sent to my support email too: support@dfsee.com
<DFSee|JvW> Watcom:
<DFSee|JvW> Yes, I started programming DFSee using IBM CSET (before VAC existed) and later used VAC 3.0 and 3.65. I switched to OpenWatcom (or actiually Watcom 11.0) early last year
<DFSee|JvW> I now build all 4 versions from a single makefile on eCS ...
<PsiFire> very nice
<DFSee|JvW> I just do some testing on DOS, Windows and Linux (some in a virtual PC)
<DFSee|JvW> In the early days I has three different compilers, one for every platform, which was quite a pain in the you-know-what :-)
<PsiFire> having one make file for all of them is definatly a bonus
<PsiFire> I gotta start getting back into C
<PsiFire> then work into C++ and OOPS
<DFSee|JvW> DFSee is plain "C" at the moment. might go to C++ when adding a 'real' GUI
<PsiFire> interesting to hear
<eCSNL> Great PsiFire your next for a speakup on C coding :-) :-)
<PsiFire> good to see that good things still come from plain C
<eCSNL> Ladies and gentlemen.
<PsiFire> hey...me and mikeG can run a C coding forum for beginniers
<PsiFire> BY beginners....:->
<eCSNL> All good things must come to an end.
<PsiFire> I hope we can do this again
<WarpedOS2> I be there at the beginners
<WarpedOS2> Had a good turn out
<eCSNL> Sadly
<PsiFire> I think we need to have more of these....i miss them
<eCSNL> And I have more people on the list for speakups.
<WarpedOS2> sounds good eCSNL
<PsiFire> awesome....any hints?
<MikeG> I'm in...
<DFSee|JvW> Thanks for listening to me ...
<eCSNL> Spread the word.
<WarpedOS2> will do
<eJoJo> Thanks for your time, Jan!
<PsiFire> would you guys like to set a date/time perhaps? we can have it here or in a special made channel
* eCSNL hands our speaker a virtual book coupon and thanks him.
* eJoJo knows it's night at this side of the ocean
* PsiFire just thought of a good article to write for VOICE newsletter
<eCSNL> PsiFire more voice articles are always welcome.
<DFSee|JvW> He, who said anything about 'virtual' ? :-)
<DFSee|JvW> You're all very welcome!
<PsiFire> are you going to exhibit at Warpstock...ie get a table? or just do presentations?
<eCSNL> This VOICE speakup is hereby ended.
* MikeG How about getting Michal Necasek for a speakup?
<eCSNL> A transcript will be posted on the website.
<eCSNL> More speakups will be annouched later this month.
<DFSee|JvW> I will not have a table of my own, but I will be arround :-)
<PsiFire> too bad I'll be going to hawaii instead of colorado...:->
<PsiFire> maybe next year
<eCSNL> Everybody thank your for being present
<DFSee|JvW> OK, time for bed here!
<eCSNL> And jan thanks for staying up late.