General Meeting From 11/02/98. Topic: Aurora Beta
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:00:09 ] <MADodel> So anyone here actually have Aurora?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:00:23 ] <ANTARTI> I've got the beta..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:00:34 ] <StooKer> MADodel : I'm running it now!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:00:39 ] <bascule> I have it... Haven't installed it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:01:06 ] <bascule> I plan to knock together a dual-CPU P2-350 to play with it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:01:20 ] <ANTARTI> bascule : good plan
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:01:39 ] * bascule wants to know if the MPTS & TCPIP on the Client Connect Pack is timebombed...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:01:45 ] <MADodel> I hear it's faster then Warp 4
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:02:08 ] <bascule> Don't want to install them on my "work" machine if they are timebombed.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:02:21 ] <ANTARTI> I need to know if the whole thing is timebombed... I have to test Y2K
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:02:54 ] <Abraxas> Hi, Mike ... Glad you could make it :-)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:02:59 ] <bascule> Antarti: The cream-coloured form which comes with it says that it'll stop working after the 18 Dec 1998
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:03:16 ] <persell> Finally got in...lots of refusals
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:03:53 ] <ANTARTI> bascule : I know... I don't know if that's the software or the actual beta-testing period...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:04:01 ] <Swanee> Longstaff!!!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:04:59 ] <bascule> Antarti: Well... IBM did timebomb the Warp3 trial - perhaps they timebombed this in the same way.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:05:12 ] <mandie> persell: welcome :) I just sent you ezirc that you can try when you have a chance
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:06:46 ] <token> Can anyone comment on the potential for a stripped down Aurora becoming a new desktop client?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:06:46 ] <Longstaff> hi mandie - whoever thought up the crab joint had a pretty good idea i think
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:06:51 ] <mandie> VOICE would like to welcome everyone to the Aurora-beta discussion
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:07:02 ] <persell> That didn't take long!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:07:17 ] <MADodel> token: gee give the guy a chance
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:07:20 ] <mandie> We hope that you are all benefiting from the mailing list and thought that you might like to have a live discussion between yourselves
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:07:39 ] <Longstaff> token - i could comment but i won't....it's being debated within ibm
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:07:48 ] <mandie> Mike Persell has been kind enough to assist and answer questions ....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:08:15 ] <persell> Some of us are trying every available option to get a new client produced
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:08:18 ] <mandie> There is no affiliation between IBM and any of the aurora-beta support provided in the mailing list or in this discussion
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:08:22 ] <mandie> Let the fun begin :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:08:50 ] <MADodel> From the sound of it, Aurora would make a nice client as is
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:09:13 ] <persell> There's a lot of baggage for Netbios serving
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:09:25 ] <mandie> Longstaff: I couldn't agree more :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:09:40 ] <bascule> I would like to know if it is safe to install the stuff on the Client Connect Pak on "working" machines.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:10:20 ] <persell> The safest way would be to look at software choice and match versions, there is some newer
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:11:11 ] <persell> Some newer stuff on the client CD but the focus was on the Warp Server
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:12:03 ] <MADodel> Any idea if there are license/royalty issues with M$ any more since HPFS386 is no longer included?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:12:10 ] <persell> The work was mostly done on the JFS and making the server SMP effecient
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:12:56 ] <ANTARTI> Is the Aurora package (or its components) set to actually bomb out on Dec. 18? Or can the system date be set forward for Y2K testing?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:12:58 ] <Confed2> Guess we're not moderated :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:13:16 ] <persell> The issues are gone, the royalty is expensive. If you already have HPFS386 volume(s) and/or a license of Warp Server Advanced then use HPFS386, it's very fast
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:14:01 ] <Confed2> Yea, is the Beta TimeBOMBED!?????
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:14:09 ] <JimLarson> What happens to EAs on JFS?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:14:21 ] <persell> ANTARI: I set some dates ahead and the code still worked...the beta program on this version ends December 18th. There will probably be more
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:15:41 ] <persell> EAs are handled differently by the journal in "Journaled File System" much like comments used to be in the HPFS. JFS is pure 32 bit, more room for baggage
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:15:43 ] <Longstaff> i hear the modem string selection in aurora is short and weak...this isn't good
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:16:51 ] <bascule> Thanks... Are there any "gotcha"s to be aware of when installing it on a clean SMP machine?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:16:51 ] <persell> That's more application being weak Longstaff.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:16:51 ] <Confed2> Well, has anyone checked the Lotus GoWebServer to see if it is TIME BOMBED???
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:17:12 ] <persell> Make sure the SMP box is on the old Warp Server SMP list or has an available PRS file from the device driver site
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:17:30 ] <mperry> When did Aurora go beta? How many copies are being distributed?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:17:32 ] <Confed2> Longstaff- WHat would that have to do with Aurora? Modem strings are independent of the OS
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:17:55 ] <persell> My experience was that the Lotus stuff didn't need any timebombs, came with it's own bombd
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:18:14 ] <Longstaff> persell1 - that was reported to me this afternnon....i haven't seen aurora personally
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:18:22 ] <Confed2> Persell--Cute :) I have it installed and I like it a lot
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:18:30 ] <bascule> They're Tyan motherboards (I have some Socket 7 and Slot 1 Mobos) which state in their manuals that they have been tested with OS/2.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:01 ] <persell> mperry: Beta was last week of October. Around 5000 will ultimately ship
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:22 ] <Longstaff> confed2 - that's true....the report concerned usr, and an aurora setup that wouldn't connect
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:27 ] * Projects crosses his fingers... "There's hope yet!"
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:28 ] <persell> I have 2 machines running it in my lab. One crashes on doesn't
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:41 ] <Confed2> bascule--If it says Tested with OS/2 Warp v3 or v4, you should NOT have any problems.......Just watch for Intel Chipsets!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:19:45 ] <mperry> thanks persell. Will aurora have a classic gamma phase also?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:02 ] <bascule> projects: I only received mine this morning
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:17 ] * Longstaff got the nick wrong - nothing intentional :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:18 ] <persell> Probably mperry: Gammas tend to be smaller though
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:29 ] <mperry> I did the merlin gamma. Only 50 or so folks on that one.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:31 ] <Projects> bascule: good... I live out in the boonies, so mail snails have further to crawl :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:56 ] <bascule> Confed2: I have 430HX, 440LX and 440BX chipset mobos to check out.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:20:57 ] <Confed2> You need to spend a few extra $$$ for FedEx :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:08 ] <bascule> Confed2: All SMP mobos.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:16 ] <SeerAWAY> persell: why is jfs not bootable ? *g*
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:20 ] <mandie> persell: will everyone that signed up for the beta receive it?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:29 ] <Confed2> bascule----I just heard that Intel Chipset MB's are being recalled because of BIOS defects
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:39 ] <trixer> someone told me that spacewalker makes decent SMP mobos
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:21:52 ] <persell> The initial release was the 200 actual beta testers with IBM support. The next release were the approved 2500 previews. Another release will be another 2000 previews. Lotsa code for a dead OS
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:09 ] <Projects> :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:15 ] <os2bbl> ;)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:22 ] <bascule> Confed2: AFAIK, this applies to 440EX. (I signed an Intel NDA)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:28 ] <Confed2> mandie--I got mine last week.......and people are still getting them.......who knows :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:42 ] <SeerAWAY> persell: why is jfs not bootable ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:22:47 ] <mandie> confed2: I never give up hope :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:05 ] <Confed2> bascule--So what your saying is that what I was told was definately true???? I heard it as a rumor
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:16 ] <persell> SeerAWAY: Not enough time before Y2k, etc. to get it done
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:21 ] <mperry> persell - that sounds like a good plan. IBM has a good game plan with regard to gamma testing. I liked their approach with the merlin gamma.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:32 ] <bascule> SeerAWAY: AFAIK, to make JFS bootable, it would need JFS Read only support in the Kernel.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:41 ] <Confed2> mandie--You'll get it from AirBorne Express if you do! :):)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:57 ] <Longstaff> i deliberately held off signing up - i'm a small developer without the nodes or traffic that would make a server beta mean anything....that's the only reason
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:23:58 ] <persell> JFS can be bootable, we do it with AIX
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:24:31 ] <mperry> The merlin gamma was the first time that IBM ever called me :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:24:32 ] <bascule> Confed2: Sort-of... There was a problem with Win98 and bi-dir Printers. So the 440EX mobo will be replaced with the just-released 440BX-2 mobo.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:24:36 ] <Confed2> trixer--Yes, Spacewalkers are nice SMP boards but they have the via chipset, busmastering stinks!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:24:51 ] <TheSeer> persell: ok, second question, since jfs comes from a unix it knows about Owners.. why don't we have that on os/2 ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:01 ] <persell> I jumped into Aurora with both feet. Use it for home machines now and it seems more stable than Warp 4
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:06 ] <bascule> Confed2: Mine arrived via UPS.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:28 ] <davemcd> Is the procedure for switching from the SMP kernel back to the UNI kernel documented anywhere? I have a PC365 which is capable of Dual PPro, but only has one installed. Foolishly I decided to install SMP support to try that, but the system is not stable, so I would like to eliminate SMP as a variable.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:29 ] <Confed2> bascule--at least I know that I'm not hte only one who heard this and can say it's not just a rumor
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:37 ] <persell> TheSeer: The kernel would have to be a multi-user kernel...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:25:49 ] <mperry> persell - got any screenshots? :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:26:06 ] <TheSeer> persell: so add it damnit ;)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:26:09 ] <Confed2> Airborne walked in on me and freaked me out with it, I was NOT expecting it at all!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:26:24 ] <RokNroB> persell: Have U installed Object Desktop 2.0 ? Or processor commander ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:26:38 ] <bascule> Confed2: We were one of the first to discover the problem over 2 months ago. There is a "fix" - disable bi-dir printer support ;-)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:26:38 ] <persell> mperry: Look like Warp4. But I'll make some shots of the LVM and send them to Dirk or Mandie
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:27:37 ] <persell> Rob: A few of us have been running OD and it's a little quirky. Process Commander gets really stupid
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:27:37 ] <Confed2> Hey!!!!!! How many here were at WARPSTOCK?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:27:37 ] <TheSeer> persell: ok.. onother thing ;) I haven't been able to test it but on warp server 4 you had to setup a lan-user *AND* a tcp/ip-user for each protocl.. is this gone in aurora ? and will the telnetd use the user-restrictions defined in the "lan" ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:28:03 ] <RokNroB> bascule: Does bi-directional printer support kill performance ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:28:17 ] <mandie> Confed2: I was :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:28:29 ] <persell> Lan Server code in Aurora is almost the same
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:28:44 ] * Longstaff was at warpstock
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:00 ] * Bseward will be going family an all to next years warpstock if its help in arizona..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:08 ] <TheSeer> persell: so if i have a telnetd running there is still that all or nothing thing ? can't believe that..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:29 ] <persell> I think Warpstock should be in Austin next year...kinda in your face like
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:45 ] <Confed2> No, Boca Rotan!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:46 ] <mandie> persell: get that bid ready :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:29:52 ] <Swanee> persell: I like your attitude :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:09 ] * token votes for Austin with both hands...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:10 ] <Bseward> confed2: heh nice I live close to that.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:14 ] <TheSeer> persell: and i have again to mess around with a lan, a ftp and a telnet user to be setup ? 3 times the same information ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:20 ] * MADodel likes Austin also
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:23 ] <Confed2> mandie--We are getting ours ready.......and I have ran convention before.......Lookout!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:32 ] <persell> TheSeer: They are completely separate protocols. Warp Server is primarily an SMB server
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:33 ] <mandie> Confed: great!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:33 ] <RokNroB> Austin would be great, since I'm moving there on the 25th.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:34 ] <Longstaff> why not white plains in that case? it's the closest town to armonk that has a major hotel
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:46 ] <persell> Mandie: I live in Dallas
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:48 ] <bascule> On page 36 under SMP support, it says I need a PSD file... Where do I get this from?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:30:56 ] <mandie> close enough :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:07 ] <Confed2> mandie--I was going to do more at this one, but you know the story behind that :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:08 ] <persell> Bascule: check the device driver online site
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:15 ] * Swanee thinks token just has a token vote...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:20 ] <bascule> persell: Thanks.,
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:21 ] <TheSeer> persell: i know.. but i can't understand why aurora does not get any enhancements for the tcp/ip-part beeing needed for "real" e-business..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:31:23 ] <mandie> Confed2: there's always next year :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:33:31 ] <davemcd> PMFJI, Is the procedure for switching from the SMP kernel back to the UNI kernel documented anywhere?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:36:40 ] NETSPLIT
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:37:02 ] <MADodel> Well there goes my log
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:37:31 ] <RokNroB> hmmmm...I can't install Object Desktop 2.0, it hangs.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:37:31 ] <persell> Bascule: Which MB?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:37:57 ] <bascule> JimLarson: According to the docs... It's case preserving, not case sensitive.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:37:59 ] <persell> JimLarson: Case tolerant
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:38:27 ] <Confed2> Abraxas--I was wondering what happened to you :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:38:40 ] <bascule> persell: Tyan Tomcat III, Tomcat IV and a couple of Tyan P-II mobos.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:38:47 ] <TheSeer> persell: did u ever try to install Warp 4 / aurora with a ZIP-Drive attached ? the Setup of warp 4 just bumps up with errors, but aurora crashes (some lvm-error )
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:39:01 ] <RokNroB> My hardware is a Tyan Tomcat IV with two pentium mmx 200's.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:39:24 ] <persell> Haven't done a zip drive yet. I'm a Syjet user
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:39:30 ] <Confed2> II was worried about you Dan, Ithought maybe you were caught in an Aurora nightmare :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:39:31 ] <WarpGuru> I will be going to Austin next week to help write the certification testing for Aurora.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:39:48 ] <persell> I'll see you there WarpGuru
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:02 ] <Abraxas> Confed2 I'm just taking notes .. still waiting for my copy :-)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:05 ] <bascule> RokNroB: I note that the max that the Tomcat III is 2x P166 without the BIOS updates.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:09 ] <WarpGuru> I hope to have the beta to work with before then, but haven't seen it yet.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:36 ] <WarpGuru> See you there. Let's go to dinner at the Cpunty Line one night, persell.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:36 ] <persell> We'll work on that
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:38 ] <TheSeer> persell: hmm.. any place to report bugs to ? (i'd like to have that bug fixed which killed my partition ..)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:40:45 ] <Confed2> OH, your another one that didn't get it? It didn't even ask for it :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:02 ] <joat> bascule: the tomcat IV goes to 2x P200
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:06 ] <persell> There is an online address in the docs
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:25 ] <mandie> WarpGuru: you think they would have given you a little *taste* :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:29 ] <RokNroB> bascule: Tomcat IV supports higher processor speeds.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:39 ] <Confed2> It seems as if they were looking at the people to see who would get one and who would not.....I guess you didn't complain enough to them over the past year :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:45 ] * WarpGuru thinks that would be the case.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:41:56 ] <bascule> joat: I know. But my own PC is a Tomcat III with latest BIOS (so it should go to 2x P200)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:42:14 ] <RokNroB> bascule: Acutally, I'm running my Tyan at 75mhz with a hardware mod I did.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:42:29 ] <persell> I need a better name...should I trust Mandie with that?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:42:34 ] <bascule> RokNroB: Naughty =)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:42:57 ] <Confed2> We all know I have done some screaming and riding of them for a while now :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:43:01 ] <mandie> persell: I can be trusted
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:43:07 ] <TheSeer> SunnyBear: this channel is very busy and excited.. don't mind beeing ignored ;)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:43:45 ] <persell> Mandie: I think you're the only one who's met me
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:43:49 ] * MADodel has been known to complain to and about IBM on occassion.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:44:14 ] <Swanee> persell: She seems to get around. :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:44:18 ] <mandie> persell: their loss :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:44:29 ] <SunnyBear> Longstaff: thank you..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:44:32 ] <Confed2> I made up my mind a while back that "SITTING BACK" and not saying anything was NOT working!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:44:39 ] <RokNroB> The ICS9159-02 and ICS9159C-14 are interchangable except the Keyboard clock is the USB clock on -14. I added a divide by four D Type flip flop package on the USB clock to take it down to 12mhz from 48mhz.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:46:01 ] <MADodel> RokNroB: you lost me on that one
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:47:24 ] <davemcd> Is the procedure for switching from the SMP kernel back to the UNI kernel documented anywhere? Is the silence a collective 'idaknow'?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:48:55 ] NETSPLIT AGAIN
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:49:30 ] <MADodel> Silence was do to a net split
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:50:00 ] <davemcd> everytime this happens after I ask about backing out SMP. coincidence or conspiracy?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:50:10 ] <MADodel> Stop asking
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:50:14 ] <MADodel> :-)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:51:02 ] <Bseward> what did the yo do to aurora to speed it up ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:51:05 ] <RokNroB> persell: Have U installed Object Desktop 2.0 on a SMP kernel ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:51:35 ] <Confed2> MADodel--can't you stay on? :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:51:50 ] <persell> Not SMP Rob: just uni
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:52:26 ] <RokNroB> Does Aurora change the kernel on the fly as promised or is it a install thingy ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:52:46 ] <persell> Installation Rob:
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:53:35 ] <Confed2> Hmmm, dumb question here, but............Has anyone tried installing Aurora over a v4 install?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:02 ] <persell> Not a good move Confed2: too many similarities
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:09 ] <RokNroB> Confed2: I did.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:27 ] <Confed2> RokNrob--Was it painless???
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:41 ] <persell> If you do...use the LVM to hide the Warp 4 partitions during install
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:44 ] <RokNroB> Confed2: Its was cool...My old desktop on my new desktop as my old desktop.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:54:47 ] <Swanee> persell: Can you take a minute explain LVM and it's benefits?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:55:04 ] <Sector> Logical Volume Manager
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:55:26 ] <Confed2> RokNrob--Did you install the JFS or LVM?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:55:28 ] <RokNroB> Confed2: My whole old desktop in one folder called my previous desktop.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:55:58 ] <RokNroB> Confed2: LVM, no JFS stuff until its bootable.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:56:08 ] <persell> Only a minute? LVM is the interface to manage ( or mangle) both JFS and HPFS partitions. It is also used to grow (not shrink) volumes
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:56:20 ] <davemcd> persell: why hide the Warp 4 partitions during install? is this related to why the drive I normally boot to is no longer bootable?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:56:34 ] <Swanee> persell: OK, take a couple of minutes... :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:56:43 ] <Confed2> Hmmmm, this makes me feel fuzzy....I might be busy later tonight here at home :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:57:08 ] <Swanee> persell: I think it would be interesting to everyone to be familiar with it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:57:32 ] <persell> davemcd: Too many files are the same name
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:58:21 ] <Confed2> Sawnee--I'd like to know of any craveats on installing it, like, Over an existing v4, installing JFS and/or LVM on an existing drive with data and such
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:58:22 ] <RokNroB> Confed2: I having problems with OD2.0 and Process Commander on the SMP kernel. I think its related to the SMP kernel cuz persell has installed both on the UNI kernel without ne problems.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:59:06 ] <WarpGuru> persell: can you group multiple existing partitions on multiple drives into an LVM partition? Can you do it during install, or is it better to wait until later?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:59:17 ] <persell> LVM is the main controller of the volumes. A key point to keep in mind is that the thinking we had with fdisk in previous versions is gone, but partitions are still there. Partirions cannot span disks...volumes can
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:59:22 ] <Confed2> I have heard things like that on v1.5 too, you might want to GRAB Brad's ear via the Newsgroups, they guy hangs there
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 20:59:51 ] <persell> WarpGuru: I would wait until after install and you can do it
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:00:16 ] <davemcd> persell: I have C,D & E on an IDE, normally boot to E: Put Aurora on a separate SCSI drive (F:), with G, H and I. Now warp 4 cannot operate drive E: when I try to boot from it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:00:16 ] <persell> Rob: I said Process Commander gets really stupid
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:01:19 ] <Confed2> Everyone--So what you are saying is that I could shutdown my system right now and be relatively safe installing it over my existing setup and still reap all the benefits of Aurora?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:01:19 ] <persell> davemcd: sounds like too many primary partitions during install
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:01:58 ] <persell> Confed2: too many variable to put a seal of approval
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:02:59 ] <davemcd> persell: Two primaries on IDE (Boot manager and C:) No primaries on SCSI (all logical drives)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:03:05 ] <Confed2> Well, I don't have anything out of the ordinary....SCSI changer is about as good as it gets
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:03:37 ] <persell> I recommend hiding existing Warp 4 partitions with the LVM during install. Unhide after installation
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:04:06 ] <Confed2> But I do have 3 HDD's with a LOT of data that would be HARD to backup first :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:04:09 ] <davemcd> persell: would a SyJet (SCSI) contribute to the problem?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:04:48 ] <persell> davemcd: probably not unless its acting like an HPFS primary
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:04:53 ] <davemcd> Confed2: 3HDD's with a LOT of data that will be even harder to replace if you crash, regardless of Aurora install.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:05:36 ] <whgiii> so anyone get Aurora to work?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:05:59 ] * Projects can't even get it to arrive :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:06:03 ] <Confed2> I know, I have a backup but I only do it once a week, 16gig is a pain! costs a lot in tapes :(
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:06:16 ] <persell> Now I know how Sunnybear felt! somebody smack whgiii
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:06:54 ] <davemcd> persell: was there any mention of the suggestion to hide warp 4 partitions ?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:07:00 ] <whgiii> I keep getting Sys3175 errors when trying to install the File & Print services
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:07:55 ] <persell> davemcd: not in the docs...discovered it by practicing...will add it to the FAQs this week
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:01 ] * SunnyBear smacks whgiii per persell's request
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:07 ] <_dougk> Anyone try to install Aurora onto a PC that has NT on it?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:30 ] * trixer throws a huge rock at _dougk
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:37 ] <persell> Yeah I use LVM!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:38 ] <MADodel> Does NT run and hide?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:46 ] <whgiii> dougk: I have been thinking about it but I don't know what it will do with the partitions.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:08:58 ] <_dougk> Hey, the PC we use at our OS/2 UG meetings is my work PC and it has NT and NTFS volumes on it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:09:32 ] <persell> You mean Windows 2000...where's Tom when I need him.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:09:35 ] <davemcd> persell: any suggestion on getting E: bootable again? I can see it fine, but sysinstx didn't work
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:10:18 ] <persell> davemcd: what does LVM show in the physical view?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:11:58 ] <SunnyBear> question? are ya'll beta testers?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:12:17 ] <Projects> no :p
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:12:20 ] <persell> Not officially for most
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:12:31 ] <whgiii> I am
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:12:54 ] <SunnyBear> ok, then I'm confused, ... where is everybody getting it?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:01 ] * MADodel would like to be but alas hasn't recieved anything
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:05 ] <whgiii> of course it is har to test something that woun't run. :(
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:19 ] <whgiii> hard
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:21 ] <Confed2> IBM sends it to it's "NICEST" people :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:23 ] <davemcd> persell: IIRC, LVM shows E: as HPFS, Part E (my label for partition E), added to boot mgr. (I removed the drive with Aurora and therefore LVM to get a bootable system that could access my old G and H drives - Aurora wasn't stable enough to live thru a restore of the G and H from zipped files on the SyJet)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:31 ] * Sector Wishes he had it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:34 ] <MADodel> whgii: well I am more then willing to try it here for you
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:13:47 ] <whgiii> :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:11 ] <_dougk> SunnyBear: Don't ask, don't tell :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:14 ] <persell> I got it from work!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:17 ] <_dougk> I signed up for the beta. Still waiting on it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:31 ] <mandie> dougk: stand in line :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:31 ] <whgiii> SunnyBear: there were a couple of URL's floating around the other day that had it for DL.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:31 ] <Confed2> OHH, MADodel didn't get it either????
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:55 ] <mandie> confed2: NO, and if anyone should have...he IS the one!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:56 ] <persell> Hey...whgiii, I could send you an Alpha build!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:56 ] <SunnyBear> whgiii: the full version beta??????
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:14:56 ] *** CTCP SOUND (Peter) (#VOICE) bell.au rings the bell
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:00 ] <whgiii> everyone who *has* a copy raise their hand
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:10 ] <_dougk> wghii: I got it off of IRC :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:16 ] <Confed2> mandie--That's what I thought to :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:30 ] <mandie> confed2: he's hung in there a long time now :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:49 ] <mandie> plus, he's our editor and could do a review :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:15:55 ] <persell> Mandie: I need to learn who these folks are!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:16:01 ] <whgiii> mandie: I got my copy dilivered Thursday
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:16:06 ] <mandie> whgiii: :P :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:16:37 ] <Confed2> Mandie--I VOLUNTEER Swanee for that one!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:16:44 ] <mandie> anyone want to do a review of the beta for the November VOICE newsletter?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:00 ] <davemcd> New topic - I tried to install with MPTS only, no LAN, TCP/IP or Netscape. When I tried to install TCP/IP or Netscape later, the install complained that Feature Installer was at the wrong level. So be sure to install at least TCP/IP and Netscape when you first get the chance
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:06 ] <Confed2> mandie--Swanee will!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:08 ] <persell> davemcd: I can't guess here.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:15 ] <whgiii> mandie: I can but I don't think IBM would like it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:34 ] <mandie> whgiii: you work for IBM?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:35 ] <Swanee> mandie: If I had the time you know I'd do it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:43 ] <mandie> whgiii: and who says IBM reads our newsletter :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:45 ] <whgiii> mandie: no
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:17:48 ] <Confed2> davemcd--I already have TCP/IP 4.1....Still install the TCP/IP?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:01 ] <whgiii> Confed2: yes
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:11 ] <mandie> whgiii: it would be a good idea if someone who got it to install did the review :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:17 ] <MADodel> Isn't it TCP/IP 4.2 with Aurora?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:19 ] <persell> YES Confed2: TCPIP 4.2.1 is the version with Aurora
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:20 ] <whgiii> Confed2: Aurora should have a newer TCP/IP stack
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:26 ] <davemcd> Confed2: Aurora TCP/IP is at 4.2.1 according to some of the accompanying docs
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:26 ] <Confed2> Swanee--You have time if you would go to bed at night :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:51 ] <Confed2> KOOL! I'll make sureto do that then
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:18:51 ] <Swanee> Confed2: It's been a tough couple of weeks... :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:19:17 ] <whgiii> mandie: well I was installing over my WSA + Warp4 system I am going to try a "clean" install and see what happens.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:19:23 ] <Confed2> Abraxas--dumped again :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:19:31 ] <mandie> Confed2: how about a review :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:19:52 ] <Confed2> NOT ME! I've only installed the Lotus so far :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:05 ] <whgiii> mandie: but if installing over a previous version is the problem then IBM needs to fix it before they go GA
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:05 ] <mandie> bummer :(
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:11 ] <persell> Esther already got me to write a review Mandie!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:19 ] <Confed2> I have to much riding on my systems to install without asking about previous setups :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:29 ] <mandie> persell: I wasn't going to ask you :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:42 ] <mandie> buttttttt....now that you've got more experience with it :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:20:52 ] <Confed2> Yea, that might be a little to biased :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:09 ] <persell> Also...remember this code is 5-6 months from going GA. There will be problems
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:12 ] <mandie> confed2: I think Mike could give an honest review
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:20 ] <mandie> of course there will be
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:25 ] <SunnyBear> if somebody gives me another box and Aurora, I'll write the review mandie..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:42 ] <mandie> Sunny, Sunny...first you have to know what it is!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:44 ] <RLD> has anyone put up pics yet of aurora....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:21:55 ] <Confed2> Nope, we're fresh out of DEMo systems SunnyBear.........:)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:22:00 ] <SunnyBear> ahhh.. but I do... it's trixer that asked the question, not me...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:22:27 ] <mandie> Sunnybear: then you need better communication :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:22:37 ] <Swordedge> as I remember it, Merlin went GA in less than six months.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:22:37 ] * Bseward hmms so 8610 mptn is tcpip 4.2.1 Beta probably
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:03 ] <whgiii> I think I'll try installing it on my Dell 400 on a clean partition and see what happens
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:33 ] <MADodel> Anyone know if Mr. Gerstner is aware there is a new version of OS/2 on the horizen?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:49 ] <whgiii> anyone know if the VLM will cause problems on an NT system?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:52 ] <SunnyBear> really, I'd love to see how it does with a linux network..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:53 ] <os2hq> Whew, had to work late tonight.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:55 ] <persell> I needed you earlier HQ
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:23:58 ] <Confed2> MADodel---That was really low................but true!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:24:07 ] <os2hq> Mike: I'm sure you held your own. What's up?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:24:49 ] <persell> Just answering Aurora questions...when I can.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:25:20 ] <persell> whgiii: I don't know.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:25:35 ] <whgiii> MADodel: well Aurora really is not a new version. It's WSA + Warp4 + a few extra bells and whistles.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:25:43 ] <os2hq> Well, Mike, riddle me this: 1. What level of Win32s is in it?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:25:51 ] <os2hq> 2. What kind of font support is in it?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:25:58 ] <persell> Sunnybear: smack whgiii again
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:07 ] <os2hq> 3. Will HPFS be included or not?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:08 ] <_dougk> Wghii: I heard that you have to reinstall NT after Aurora, but can't confirm that as fact.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:21 ] <whgiii> dougk: ewwww
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:24 ] * SunnyBear winds up and give whgiii a second smack per persell's request...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:37 ] <os2hq> 4. Can I choose to load without networking stuff as a standalone machine?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:26:41 ] <Confed2> Oh, give him one from me just for the fun of it
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:12 ] <os2hq> BTW, you all DO know what "Aurora" means, don't you???
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:18 ] <persell> HPFS is in the box, HPFS386 is extra
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:24 ] <os2hq> persell: okay.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:39 ] <Swordedge> 3. My understanding is HPFS.. included. HPFS386, not included
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:39 ] <os2hq> okay.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:39 ] <persell> Fast and stealthy?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:41 ] <SunnyBear> os2hq: curious... why would you want it standalone with all that good stuff in it..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:27:45 ] <Swordedge> something to do with license fees
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:28:14 ] <os2hq> Aurora: Goddess of the Dawn. Meaning: This is the "dawn of a new era" for OS/2.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:28:24 ] <os2hq> Sunny: Just want to know what options have been included in the INSTALLER>
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:28:45 ] <os2hq> The key to getting people to try something often involves an easy INSTALL step.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:28:52 ] <SunnyBear> os2hq: ahhhh.... the seeker of knowledge... I'm impressed... :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:29:22 ] <os2hq> For example, load OS/2 on top of Windoze9x, and it hoses WinOS2 automatically. I wonder if Aurora installer detects and avoids that....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:29:28 ] <Confed2> I've got a question.....Do you need to use Bootdisks to get Aurora installing?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:29:32 ] <os2hq> Sunny: ;)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:29:53 ] <Confed2> or can you run it from the v4 GUI?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:29:57 ] <persell> Yes Confed2...3 diskettes
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:02 ] <os2hq> Hmmm....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:22 ] <SunnyBear> os2hq: windoze9x? is that a new york version of windows? hehehe
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:26 ] <Confed2> Man, when will IBM learn..............the DISKS are NOT a Good thing!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:38 ] <os2hq> Sunny: heh. It's the new JERK version
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:43 ] <Swordedge> persell, I would love to actually see anything boot from CD Rom, I have seen that in the bioses but not in real life.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:48 ] <SunnyBear> hehehe
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:30:54 ] <whgiii> Confed2: there is nothing wrong with boot disks
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:03 ] <os2hq> Sword: I saw NT try to boot from CD once. ;)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:20 ] <persell> My Suse Linux boots from CD
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:24 ] <Confed2> Swordedge.....I made a CD bootable with DOS :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:26 ] <ANTARTI> swordedge: try Solaris ..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:28 ] <_dougk> Confed2: The disks are a good thing.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:34 ] <Swordedge> I bet it still trying
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:31:43 ] <_dougk> Allows you to add drivers to the boot configuration.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:03 ] <os2hq> Sword: You're right, it went into an endless loop. How *intuitive* of you to guess.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:26 ] <whgiii> how many here actually have a copy of Aurora?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:27 ] <os2hq> dougk: Still would be nice to choose diskette or CD version. Options are nice.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:29 ] <Confed2> _dougk--They are to easy to screw up.........Easy to rectify.......execute alternate script as per the IDE drivers
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:45 ] <persell> whgiii: I do!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:49 ] <os2hq> Not I.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:32:53 ] <Confed2> I do
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:02 ] <ANTARTI> whgii: I do
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:15 ] <_dougk> Confed2: I have to tweak disk 1 to install NCR SCSI driver.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:21 ] <Confed2> I'll answer for Swanee (he's sleeping) He do!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:41 ] <whgiii> hmmmm only 4 .....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:53 ] <os2hq> Say, Mike, will the latest Jikes Java Compiler for OS/2 be in the box?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:33:55 ] <_Ed_> are the java numbers on par with warp?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:05 ] <Confed2> But with an existing v4, it would be nice to be able to use it to install...........The option would be very nice!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:08 ] <whgiii> Ed: java 1.1.6
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:18 ] <persell> Maybe 1.17 Tom. Probably 1.16
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:23 ] <os2hq> Good!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:26 ] <Swordedge> that is one of the things you can do with bootable CDRoms, put every wierd driver you can think of on it without running out of room.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:29 ] <mandie> os2hq: you program java?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:31 ] <_Ed_> what is the date of the runtime?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:41 ] <os2hq> Mandie: Yes. I'm taking classes now. It's GREAT!!!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:45 ] <SunnyBear> Question: has anyone installed Aurora on a clean drive?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:49 ] <ANTARTI> persell : Since Aurora has pretty much sold me as the top JAVA development platform, why not bundle VisualAge with the GA?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:34:54 ] <os2hq> Planning to spice up my page RSN. www.os2hq.com
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:35:03 ] <_dougk> Swordedge: IBM will only include drivers that they have the source code for. That's why the NCR driver is not included.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:35:05 ] <Confed2> Yep, that was the reason I made the CD I did, makes it nice for install of Wincrap!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:35:19 ] <persell> ANTARTI: different support entities
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:35:32 ] <whgiii> SunnyBear: I am going to tonight as installing over Warp4+WSA failed. :(
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:36:26 ] <SunnyBear> whgiii: that'll be very telling, don't ya think as to whether it's an upgrade or full version...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:36:35 ] <persell> whgiii: if you have the drivespace...hide the Warp + WSA partitions with LVM
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:36:38 ] <_Ed_> bundling VA would probably NOT make the VA developers friendly to OS/2...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:36:40 ] <Swordedge> That is one reason I always but no os stuff on a different drive. You can delete the OS drive and not affect your programs.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:37:03 ] <Swordedge> How about a demo version of VA.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:37:08 ] <whgiii> Swordedge: yep, same way I have my systems partitioned.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:37:14 ] <ANTARTI> persell: you guys kill me... The only reason I used Solaris was SMP and native thread JAVA (and good tools, but yours are better).. Why not pitch to corporate developers with a bundle like that? (Sorry everyone, I'm Enterprise Developer Scum..)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:37:32 ] <whgiii> does anyone know what has happened to DevCon?? Is it dead?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:37:34 ] <_Ed_> the free version of VA *should* be in the demo pack
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:38:01 ] <persell> ANTARTI: App development guys are pretending we OS/2 guys don't exist
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:38:09 ] <ANTARTI> _Ed_ : The Pro or vouchers for a deal on Enterprise should be there..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:38:21 ] <_Ed_> yes
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:38:58 ] <Longstaff> i have a question on va java - is there a mail url for tech support? it's a long story
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:39:16 ] <_Ed_> think solaris is still doing a better job of handling threads. I do not believe OS/2 uses quite the same methods to do it threading.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:39:30 ] <_dougk> longstaff: have you tried the newsgroup?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:40:30 ] <ANTARTI> _Ed_ : here's a place where IBM makes the difference.. It's up to the JVM implementation they produce on how well threads get implemented.. hopefully that will only improve as Aurora is very scalable..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:40:36 ] <whgiii> how does one tell the version of the TCP/IP stack?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:40:41 ] <Longstaff> _dough - yes, but db2 has mail support....i was hoping va java would work the same way
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:11 ] <MADodel> inetver at a command line
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:15 ] <Confed2> with syslevel
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:17 ] <_dougk> I don't know of any offhand. Check the vadd web site.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:20 ] <persell> whgiii: syslevel
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:33 ] <whgiii> Version numbers of TCP/IP protocol drivers:
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:34 ] <whgiii> SOCKETS.SYS: 6.2000
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:34 ] <whgiii> AFOS2.SYS: 6.2000
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:34 ] <whgiii> AFINET.SYS: 6.2000
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:41:47 ] <whgiii> ??
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:42:37 ] <trixer> whgiii, inetver.exe
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:42:48 ] <_Ed_> antarti ibm IS doing a very good job with JVMs and 1.1.7 seem to scale well according to the press test reports. Solaris with its many java threads only use as many OS threads had required it a very nice way to do java threading
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:42:48 ] <persell> whgiii: That's 4.2.1
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:43:09 ] <whgiii> persell: k
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:43:16 ] <Confed2> Thank You....Still haven't figure out how to do that :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:44:24 ] <_dougk> just rec'd this in email...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:44:36 ] <_dougk> It's available ! The much anticipated final release of NetBeans
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:44:36 ] <_dougk> Developer 2.0 is available for download from the NetBeans website.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:44:50 ] <_dougk> Download the evaluation version of NetBeans Developer 2.0 free from
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:44:50 ] <_dougk> http://www.netbeans.com/register.html
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:45:02 ] <mandie> dougk: got it tonight...:)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:45:04 ] <_dougk> As with the Beta releases, NetBeans Developer 2.0 is free for
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:45:05 ] <_dougk> educational and non-commercial use.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:45:30 ] <_dougk> I'll have to get it soon. The beta was pretty slick.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:46:13 ] <mandie> dougk: have you tried Simplicity for Java?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:46:22 ] * Confed2 Runs for more of the Kids Trick or Treat candy!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:46:45 ] <_dougk> mandie: I tried it several months ago.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:47:16 ] <ANTARTI> _Ed_ : saw those reports, impressive. The Gateway stuff I write has LOTS of lightweight thread processes from the get go until termination. Just want to make sure that someone at IBM knows that Aurora can be made very popular with Java developers, hope they persue them.. We still move a lot of Solaris product compared to OS/2 for Java.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:47:19 ] <_dougk> Already had VAJ, so didn't spend much time with it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:47:55 ] <Confed2> I spent a LOT of time downloading it :) 7 times!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:48:37 ] <os2hq> VA Java didn't impress me as easy... Simplicity DID!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:48:54 ] <os2hq> Now if IBM would just license the Simplicity as a front-end....
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:02 ] <_dougk> VAJ is a huge resource hog.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:05 ] <_Ed_> antarti I have ported 'pipes' from VM/CMS to netrexx/java. You want to see threads try it. Anything done to make threads and context switches faster makes me very happy
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:27 ] <Confed2> Hmmm, Simplicity supported WarpStock.......Did IBM.........
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:44 ] <persell> Barely
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:46 ] <_dougk> Did IBM show Aurora at Warpstock?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:49:53 ] <Confed2> Someone did
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:50:24 ] <mandie> Steven King gave the Aurora demo..but that was not supported through IBM
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:50:26 ] <_dougk> Nothing IBM does suprises me any more. Last suprise I got was when my email to their user group dept bounced.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:50:29 ] <ANTARTI> _Ed_ You rule.. I had no idea that who you were.. I agree, lower overhead is always a blessing, this is where NT is a total pig..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:50:30 ] <Confed2> Well, since Simplicity was there and very visible, we should all support them, since they support us!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:51:01 ] <_dougk> I wonder how much they saved by nuking that dept.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:51:16 ] <persell> If Steven went...it was with Jeff's blessings
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:51:46 ] <_dougk> Guess IBM over spent the UG dept budget last year buying OS/2 Birthday cakes :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:51:49 ] <_Ed_> antarti its NOT an offical port - just me missing a tool and being willing to dedicate time to porting and learning java/netrexx
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:52:29 ] <Confed2> We should all support the people who support WarpStock..................PLUG PLUG
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:52:49 ] <joat> so who are Simplicity?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:53:07 ] <_dougk> I'm very close to supporting the House/2 author.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:53:09 ] <Confed2> They make a slick GUI for JAVA developers
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:53:31 ] <JimLarson> I playin with House/2 right now.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:53:32 ] <persell> I enjoyed '97 got swamped and couldn't attend '98. We really should take an in your face approach and go to Austin next year
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:54:01 ] <_dougk> JimLarson: House/2 works for me, but I can't get the native X10 app to work under NT.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:54:15 ] <Confed2> _dougk--Centari Computers system come with an OEM version of House/2! PLUG PLUG.........I'm making commercials again!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:54:39 ] <_dougk> If the next Warpstock is in Phoenix, I'll be there.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:54:57 ] <Longstaff> simplicity is a small independent new jersey software development company - they're the best :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:55:11 ] <Confed2> It might be in Canton, Ohio...............It's all in the presentation!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:55:12 ] <MADodel> I'd like VOICE to sponsor a pilgrimage to Austin to meet the developers of OS/2.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:55:16 ] <_dougk> I couldn't go to Chicago this time. Had vacation scheduled for the following week in Pittsburgh.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:55:59 ] <Confed2> We'll excuse this time, but every effort has to be made next year or will poision your systems with Win2000
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:56:00 ] <persell> The development team would love it
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:57:00 ] <token> will Warpstock '99 be in the same timeframe...mid October?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:57:25 ] <persell> Tough question for Mandie: token:
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:57:45 ] <mandie> token: it will depend upon the bidding city
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:57:49 ] <Confed2> Warpstock committie.............Watch out, I'm getting together a DYNAMITE! WarpStock '99 Presentation!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:57:49 ] <Swordedge> persell, someone in Austin would have to take the bull by the horns and put together a bid for it. Phoenix is talking about hosting it.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:08 ] <persell> A lot of MIS shops have cancelled vacation after June of next year
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:10 ] <mandie> token: there's nothing in stone that it has to be in October
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:30 ] <MADodel> Well folks had better get bids in soon, so we can get the ball rolling for an even bigger WS99
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:45 ] * mperry thinks that warpstock should be in boca raton fla :) :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:45 ] <token> Mandie -- thanks. I have to book vacation WAY aheaed...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:45 ] <mandie> Confed2: you go!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:47 ] <mandie> token: ah, I see
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:58:49 ] <persell> If its in Pheonix...the later the better
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:59:10 ] <Confed2> I will, but I get the BIGGEST Booth! :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:59:26 ] * SunnyBear agrees with mperry... kinda.... Fl at least..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:59:28 ] <mandie> confed2: then you pay the BIGGEST $ :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 21:59:55 ] <SunnyBear> at least someplace in the eastern/southern part of the US next time..
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:00:20 ] <Confed2> I'm seriously thinking of buying 2 booths, maybe 3!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:00:25 ] <mperry> Im kinda glad that the baton has been passed :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:00:30 ] <persell> How about where Tom lives?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:00:43 ] <dougk> persell: If you have it too late in Phoenix, the cost will be very high.
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:01:10 ] <MADodel> dougk: true
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:01:12 ] <Swordedge> why, ski season?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:01:25 ] <persell> Snowbirds
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:01:33 ] <Confed2> You wouldn't believe what we already started on for '99 :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:01:47 ] <token> I imagine a lot of people like to have conventions in Phoenix in the winter...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:02:00 ] <Confed2> I'm not going to feel out of place like I did this year
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:02:04 ] <mandie> Confed2: that's good...when we're ready to accept bids you should have alot in place then :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:02:31 ] <mandie> Confed2: you shouldn't have felt out of place!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:02:36 ] <_Ed_> anyone with the beta notice any changes/improvement in MP support?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:02:45 ] <Confed2> I ALMOST have everything done! I have run several (7) Coca-Cola Conventions up here
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:03:08 ] <Confed2> Oh, my booth looked TERRIBLE!
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:03:24 ] <Swanee> You could have it where I live but I don't think mom would like 500 people trapseing through the house looing for the lounge. :)
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:03:26 ] <mandie> confed2: where are you?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:03:37 ] <Swanee> looing=looking
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:10:20 ] NETSPLIT
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:14:29 ] <mandie> I'm going to take off...but I'd like to thank everyone for coming and thanks to Mike for answering questions and providing info
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:14:40 ] <mandie> Should we do this again in about a month?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:15:25 ] <trixer> don't excite me
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:15:25 ] <Swanee> I think that a months time would be a good idea for another discussion on this
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:15:47 ] <persell> I'm glad I'm not editing this
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:15:49 ] <mandie> Mike, can you come back in about a month for another discussion?
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:16:02 ] <persell> Yep...
[ 11-02-98 ] [ 22:16:20 ] <mandie> persell: great..we'll setup a date and put out a little more advanced notice next time :)