| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:05:04 ] | <Judy> VOICE welcomes Mike Persell back for a continued discussion of Aurora Beta
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:06:48 ] | <Judy0> persell: Thanks for the return visit. Would you like to give us any updates before the questions start flying?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:06:56 ] | <efir> persell: Will IBM releaseinformations about algorithms and data structures used in JFS?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:07:17 ] | <persell> efir...how much mony you got?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:07:43 ] | <efir> persell: Hm, well, let's see.... about 20 DM. Enough? ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:08:19 ] | <persell> As most of you know, the release you got was the 1st beta. We have had about 6 new builds since
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:08:50 ] | <Longstaff> persell....that implies you're not that far from ga
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:08:57 ] | <Confed2> Is there a chance we will get another chance to "PREVIEW" it?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:08:57 ] | <persell> We have been watching the comments and are adjusting code like the LVM based on feedback
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:09:25 ] | <persell> Longstaff: GA is still slated for March or April
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:09:55 ] | <efir> Has IBM developed JFS theirselves or is it (somewhat) the same as HP-UX's JFS (AKA Veritas File System)?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:10:00 ] | <persell> Confed2: I would like to see the updated LVM code released
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:10:02 ] | <Judy0> persell: do you know if any other IBM's involved with the beta are on the warp-beta mailing list?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:10:11 ] | <Judy0> IBM'ers that is :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:10:23 ] | <persell> efir: JFS was a port from IBM's AIX JFS
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:10:58 ] | <persell> Judy: none that are there regularly...some lurkers I think
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:11:04 ] | <efir> persell: Yes, but is that (AIX) JFS realted to the Veritas Code?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:11:04 ] | <Judy> ok
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:11:05 ] | <Confed2> Thanks Judy, that looked wierd :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:11:06 ] | <DaBull> persell pls clarify,... does the beta expire on the 18th or just testor support?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:11:24 ] | <DaBull> tester even
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:21:19 ] | <Longstaff> i was going to ask before about how i'm a little puzzled about something....how does jfs compares or competes with the clustering concept
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:22:32 ] | <persell> Clustering is a group of servers working or waiting to back each other up...JFS is a file system that runs locally and uses a journal to record reads and writes
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:23:32 ] | <persell> A big concept problem we are aeeing is that some folks believe we replace HPFS386 with JFS...we don't
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:23:42 ] | <fire> persell: Can JFS (just hypothetically) be installed on Warp 4?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:23:44 ] | <persell> aeeing=seeing
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:24:12 ] | <persell> fire: hypothetically yes...it will be a dog though
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:24:22 ] | <fire> persell: Why?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:24:28 ] | <Longstaff> persell....i was under that impression myself (replacement)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:24:46 ] | <persell> JFS scales under hard load...Warp 4 can't scale to more CPUs
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:25:17 ] | <Longstaff> what triggers the distribution?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:25:54 ] | <persell> Longstaff: There is a monitor that watches differences in reads and writes
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:26:15 ] | <Longstaff> so it's transparent?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:26:26 ] | <persell> When the times exceed a threshold it grabs more CPU if available
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:26:28 ] | <fire> persell: I consider converting my development machine's file systems to FJS. BTW: Will there be a HPFS to JFS converter available someday?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:26:41 ] | <lmadode> persell: is this like mainframe journalling? Do journal files have to be switched at a certain point? Or does JFS only journal a brief period of transactions and then cycle?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:27:17 ] | <persell> fire: They are completely different contructions. The committmemnt to one or the other is fixed
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:27:48 ] | <persell> lmadode: A very condensed version...we don't scale that much!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:28:20 ] | <fire> persell: FAT and HPFS are that, too. Nonetheless PowerQuest developed a converter.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:28:34 ] | <persell> For NetBIOS work HPFS386 is still king. JFS runs in ring 3
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:28:55 ] | <lmadode> I wouldn't count on PQ for much new OS/2 related development.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:29:10 ] | <persell> fire: the conversion in experiments has only been one way
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:29:15 ] | * Orion451 has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:29:20 ] | <fire> persell: As far as I could see, Aurora's JFS does not provide (symbolic/hard) links like UN*X file systems do. Why?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:29:41 ] | <persell> OS/2 kernel won't support it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:29:56 ] | <Joc_> how much overhead JFS add to writing a file (CPU and Hard Disk)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:30:11 ] | <Klaus> persell: so why don't rewrite the os2kernl ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:30:25 ] | <persell> Joc: being its ring 3 there is more overhead
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:30:50 ] | <persell> Klaus: Time and money right now...Y2K is eating up resource like crazy
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:31:18 ] | <Klaus> persell: is this the reason why jfs is not implemented in ring0 ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:32:01 ] | <lmadode> I thought Warp was already Y2K certified?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:32:09 ] | <persell> There are several key features that got to be too expensive initially. Bootable JFS, User disk limits, bootable CDs, Ring 0...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:32:42 ] | <persell> lmadode: Warp is...we are losing lots of key people to large Y2K projects on all platforms
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:33:12 ] | <lmadode> persell: thanks for the clarification
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:33:20 ] | <fire> persell: AFAIK bootable CDs can be built by a user (at least there's an archive named cdboot.zip). Why can't IBM?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:34:37 ] | <Agios> In a nutshell, what are the key benefits of Aurora?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:34:55 ] | <persell> Its not a matter of can't...when is the issue. When a company like IBM writes it...it has to work on every conceivable combination of controllers and SCSI or IDE drives out there. We have 1200 combinations in our test lab and that is still not enough
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:35:52 ] | <Joc_> Of all the things that you would like to be in JFS, what percentage is in it now?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:35:55 ] | <fire> persell: Ok. Will (or at least *may*) any of these enhancements be available via Software Choice in the foreseeable future?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:36:15 ] | <persell> The key benefits are the hidden ones...1) API now supports 4gb RAM, 3gb per process...2) File sizes have increased...3) JFS and CHKDSK are very fast
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:36:44 ] | <persell> I can't guess now fire...its still 4 months to GA
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:37:02 ] | <Klaus> persell: is there any way to push IBM to release an Warp 5 client ? (Aurora without the server stuff) ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:37:02 ] | <TheSeer> will jfs be bootable in GA ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:37:03 ] | <persell> Joc: 7 out of 10
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:37:34 ] | <Longstaff> we're all hoping bigtime for a warp 5 clinet
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:37:37 ] | <persell> TheSeer: We are trying...what would you be willing to drop to have it?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:38:14 ] | <TheSeer> persell: NT-Support ? *eg*
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:38:35 ] | <lmadode> Any idea how many folks are currently working on the Aurora project?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:38:37 ] | <persell> Logstaff: So am I and several others...its a matter of the Y2K deadline...potential sales..politics
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:38:58 ] | * Longstaff has y2k hassles of his own :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:38:59 ] | <persell> Easily a 100
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:39:58 ] | <Mossy> persell: can anyone get a copy of the Aurora beta?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:40:05 ] | <_charly> I would like complete multimedia support for DVD... what happened in the poll??? can we know about it?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:40:30 ] | <persell> Mossy: I think they're all gone
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:06 ] | <persell> charly: The organization that developed the DVD standard wants half a million for the specs
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:20 ] | <TheSeer> persell: will there be a second beta for everybody having the actual beta ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:25 ] | <Longstaff> good point _charly - multimedia teleconferencing is gonna become a killer app in a short while i think
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:31 ] | <lmadode> Some atandard if the the specs aren't public
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:36 ] | <_charly> persell: i did received one, with dupplicated CDs.. i was umnable to install it...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:41:41 ] | <persell> Agreed Mark
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:42:28 ] | <persell> charly: send a note to the address in the package with subject line addressing the bad package
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:42:53 ] | <Confed2> Is it done now?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:43:00 ] | <_charly> Thanx persell
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:43:04 ] | <TheSeer> persell: question to the tcp/ip stack. is there a way to have ip-masqurading for a device like lan0 or ppp0 ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:43:23 ] | <_charly> (charly has one dollar for the DVD support...:)...),
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:43:48 ] | <Joc_> There was a message about some cooperation with Stardock for a Warp 5, using a scale down Aurora, anything happening there?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:43:54 ] | <persell> There is a way...its been done via Igate and some dialers.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:07 ] | <TheSeer> persell: that's ugly ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:08 ] | <persell> Joc: None that I'm aware of
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:31 ] | <Joc_> Persell, could have been nice to see
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:41 ] | <Confed2> If SunnyBear would run this under AURORA, we wouldn't have these problems :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:48 ] | <persell> What needs to be in the FAQs ( I helped write some)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:44:52 ] | <_charly> i know i am going into politics, but half a million dollars is not enough to consider SOHO market as an alternative way to get founds????
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:45:27 ] | <SunnyBear> Confed2: run what under Aurora?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:45:28 ] | <ptackbar> _charly: It's not in IBM's interest to try and steal away Microsoft's stronghold on the home market when they can just sell IBm products that run on Windows and make more money.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:46:00 ] | <fire> persell: I had a very special problem with LVM and 2 primary partitions (both Drive C:) - I wasn't able to create that configuration with LVM, but with fdisk
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:46:04 ] | <persell> charly: Thats just for the specs...that doesn't include code. There has been a proposal and we do support the disk standard
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:46:06 ] | <TheSeer> persell: why does IBM claim the tcp/ip-stack is *full bsd 4.4-compilant* if it's missing features like ip-masqurading ?!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:46:18 ] | <lmadode> ptackbar: until M$ takes over the market and puts IBM out of that line of work.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:46:26 ] | <_charly> _ptackbar... does we run windows apps???? can you run Win 32 apps???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:47:13 ] | <ptackbar> Hey, I'm not condoning it :) I'm just saying they are doing what makes them the most money :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:47:15 ] | <lmadode> persell: didn't IBM write DVD drivers for NT for the TP770? I saw a boast about it on IBM's TP site.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:47:16 ] | * Longstaff would rather run apps that work relaibly
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:47:39 ] | <persell> fire: This is a server meant for high uptime and availability. Multiple partitions are not its forte
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:47:40 ] | <Judy> getting back on the topic of Warp beta :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:00 ] | <Judy> err..Aurora :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:06 ] | <persell> lmadode: Probably was bought with the hardware
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:09 ] | <Confed2> LongStaff, I myself would like to run SOFTWARE..........I'm getting to the point that I would take the unstability!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:13 ] | <lmadode> Judy: this is related. DVD is needed in Warp 5
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:35 ] | <Judy> mad: ok :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:36 ] | <Confed2> DVD is needed even in Aurora!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:48:57 ] | <Joc_> Did IBM have any contribution to the DVD standard?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:49:08 ] | <fire> persell: What I wanted to say: LVM can handle it, but not create it.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:49:10 ] | <persell> TheSeer: We write to the RFC's
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:50:10 ] | <_charly> ok... we are entering in the old vicious circle... programs vs. market... i insist... if SOHO market is attacked Warp could have more apps and Warp developers could have more money to do DVD drives... (full powered)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:50:43 ] | <persell> I will just sit and listen
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:51:01 ] | <ptackbar> _charly: but you're missing the point...there's no benefit in it for IBM if they can just write software for Windows :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:51:05 ] | <persell> DVD is not out of the picture...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:51:19 ] | <persell> WRONG!!!!!!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:51:47 ] | <Confed2> I know it would help my OS/2 sales to have more apps available, and with DVD catching on like crazy, OS/2 could be up front or WAY out in left field
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:51:48 ] | <Joc_> persell, How important Aurora is for IBM? Your division?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:52:33 ] | <fire> persell: I tried to put my SWAPPER.DAT on JFS - this didn't work either. Will this be able in the GA?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:52:53 ] | * lmadode is quite pleased to see the aurora web site with poll questions related to the SO/HO user. Any idea who directs the choice of questions there?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:07 ] | <ptackbar> why would a server need DVD?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:11 ] | <persell> ptackbar: my customers, the accounts I support, average 5000 OS/2 seats each...they don't need DVD according to their Managers
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:23 ] | <TheSeer> persell: what does IBM see the big deal in doing Warp-SERVER but kill off the client ? If there is *everything* running on Windoze, why should someone use Warp as a Server ?? ( When even some addons for Lotus Notes don't run on OS/2 )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:24 ] | <ptackbar> persell: exactly
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:26 ] | <persell> fire: Swapper will always fail in JFS
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:53:27 ] | <_charly> but is SOHO out of the picture???? why??? i just need one good reason to understand why 10 million copies can be better than 10,000
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:54:11 ] | <_charly> sorry 10,000 can be better than 10 million...:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:54:24 ] | <ptackbar> _charly: MS has a stronghold on the soho market...selling OS/2 to that market would require a major ad campaign which is obviously not going to happen...so they wouldn't make money off it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:54:32 ] | <fire> persell: Is the SWAPPER.DAT on HPFS checked after a system crash (does it consume time and RAM)?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:54:59 ] | <ptackbar> It costs more to change the mind of the average consumer than to just write for windows :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:04 ] | * Longstaff is thankful for ibm for the resources they are putting behind ongoing warp development
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:07 ] | <persell> fire: JFS is a ring 3 installable file system...until it boots it can't support swapper
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:13 ] | <Confed2> I must admit, it does "SEEM" to be crazy to run WarpServer as the main server, then run Windows off of it, you have to train a person to run Warp and then train others to run Wimpdoze
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:41 ] | <Agios> _charly, IBM announced 18 months ago, or longer, that they are out of the SOHO business regarding OS/2.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:51 ] | <Agios> and that's that
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:55:56 ] | <persell> Thom...the cost of an NT server over a year is 6 times that of a Warp Server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:56:07 ] | <Confed2> But then again, you need your server to be reliable..............a CLASSIC CATCH 22
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:56:32 ] | <Confed2> I know, I'm looking at it from BOTH ends............:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:56:32 ] | <ptackbar> CLASSIC
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:56:53 ] | <Confed2> As classic as it can be in the age of computers :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:56:55 ] | <TheSeer> persell: nobody i know cares about that costs. They just don't understand why they should install a Warp SERVER if they have everything else on NT..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:57:26 ] | <TheSeer> ( and they have to use NT or Windoze98 for client, since they can't get an actual version of Warp for the client )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:57:38 ] | <Joc_> persell, what is the main reason for that 6 times cost?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:57:54 ] | <persell> I get a lot of feedback bout the the costs...especally when you have 1200 servers and 60,000 clients
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:57:56 ] | <Abraxas> Can we *please* try to stay on the topic of the Aurora Beta, and not digress into marketing and other OSes?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:57:59 ] | <Confed2> Warp v4 works well with Aurora, so that is not a question at this point
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:58:42 ] | <persell> Thanks Abraxas
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:58:44 ] | * TheSeer shuts up
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:03 ] | <persell> I want to ask some questions
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:11 ] | <Judy> you have the floor
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:35 ] | <Confed2> We are..........What are the reasons a NT Network should switch to Aurora? Costs are at issue with MAJOR $$$ business's, but other will opt for the extra costs if they can run all the software available
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:35 ] | <Longstaff> persell....how can we help?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:42 ] | <Klaus> how much money is IBM willing to spend for the Aurora development compared to the money they spent on WarpServer 4 Development ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 20:59:52 ] | <persell> Think in terms of server and client
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:00:01 ] | <fire> persell: Now that JFS can't be booted from, it would be helpful to install all apps, the server, java and so on on JFS while leaving HPFS just for the base OS. On my first trials with the preview, I wasn't able to create and format a Logical Volume with JFS. Is this a known issue?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:00:28 ] | * Longstaff is trying to see it in server and client terms
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:01:06 ] | <fire> persell: I wasn't able to do this during installation. With a running Aurora it works, of course.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:01:14 ] | <persell> Is it crucial for JFS to be bootable...even though it will boot slower
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:01:15 ] | <Swanee> Hold up gang... Mike is asking a question now.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:01:53 ] | <_charly> persell... as server i don't mind if you take longer to boot, if i will boot once a month or once a year...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:01:57 ] | <Confed2> YES!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want a file system I cannot boot to!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:02:18 ] | <_charly> in terms of client i will... cause i will boot every morning...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:02:22 ] | <persell> Why not Thom?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:02:40 ] | <Confed2> and with the JFS being more reliable............Why not do it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:03:11 ] | <TheSeer> maybe we should let Mike ask his question now ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:03:13 ] | <persell> I can only think of one valid reason....HPFS chkdsk is slooooowww
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:03:22 ] | <Confed2> Cause the more seperate things you have, the more things screw up and are harder to track down
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:04:07 ] | <persell> This next one may split the server.....What video card support should be in the server?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:04:27 ] | <persell> Think server....
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:04:29 ] | <Confed2> MATROX! :):):)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:04:58 ] | <TheSeer> persell: i'm not that a big guy in gfx-stuff.. but is there a simple vesa-thing supported by all cards ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:08 ] | <Klaus> persell: Matrox with hardware Open-GL ,-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:15 ] | <persell> Good point TheSeer
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:20 ] | <Confed2> In all actuallity, strict VGA would be fine for a server sittin in the corner somewhere
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:42 ] | <lmadode> SciTech Display Doctor should be licenced for the client. Let the server run SVGA
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:52 ] | <persell> Do you run Open-GL on a server that averages 9 months up time?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:59 ] | <_charly> Persell... i just want to do one question about aurora.... it does include WebSphere app server... what will happened to WebSphere Studio and the other part.... even more can we expect Net.Commerce for Aurora? )as a server i don't mind... just make it bootable in les than 15 minutes...:) ...)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:05:59 ] | <vrbraun> TheSeer: as in qnx eg...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:06:19 ] | <Swanee> S3 based, Matrox, the usual. PLUS, it might be worth a look at what SciTech is doing to support almost any card. (It's gradd based I believe)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:00 ] | <TheSeer> for me i belive on a SERVER the VESA-standart should be enough..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:06 ] | <persell> charly: probably gonna see Apache in the long run
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:12 ] | <TheSeer> the rest of the warp4-stuff with updated drivers maybe added..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:45 ] | <TheSeer> persell: if ibm is going to add apache to os/2, *please* make it multithreading ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:48 ] | <Confed2> The current selection of video is fine, no need to jiuce the video up, UNLESS, you are going to support games and such on it, which as we know, OS/2 doesn't have anything that can push the newer cards
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:07:54 ] | <persell> Now...what about the client
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:08:21 ] | <TheSeer> persell: for the client, the first thing needed is a switch res/colordepth on the FLY..!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:08:28 ] | <Klaus> persell: I don't get the point of your graphics-driver question, IBM has developed lots of drivers (on devicedrivers online) why don't include all of them on the install CD ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:08:38 ] | <Confed2> TheSeer.....................YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:08:42 ] | <Longstaff> persell....we're hoping for the client....hoping hard is all i can say
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:08:56 ] | <persell> Licensing Klaus
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:09:26 ] | <Confed2> Persell..........Till we have a firm commitment on the client, this could all be a MOOT POINT
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:09:34 ] | <Klaus> persell: you have to pay for adding these drivers on CD, even if we can download them for free?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:09:35 ] | <Swanee> I'd say besides the companies that support OS/2, push new vendors into gradd based drivers or license SciTech's Display Doctor.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:09:55 ] | <lmadode> persell: Is IBM thinking of limiting Warp Server to specific limited selection of hardware?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:00 ] | <_charly> Persell.. but from Apache to Net.Commerce is one application long... and that application is IBM today... is the commitment to NT AIX Solaris and OS/400... will be a Net.Commerce for Aurora? )i do mind in the client... booting time is dead time for the ppl that works... we need all kind of drivers at the client)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:01 ] | <vrbraun> IBM is paying licences to distribute drivers?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:18 ] | <persell> I would guess that a client should have AGP...on the fly adjustments...DVD...I am getting hammered to support these on a server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:27 ] | <Confed2> IBM needs to BUY SciTech's license and use them to do the graphics..........might be cheaper in the long run!!!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:43 ] | <Sector> Support for the full range of hardware acceleration supported by the card (Open GL, ect).
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:10:54 ] | <Longstaff> confed2....you think so?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:00 ] | <Confed2> If these are in a client, there would be NO NEED for them to be in the server!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:05 ] | <lmadode> persell: but if you don't get them in on the Server will the client ever see them?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:05 ] | <Klaus> persell: than maybee you can get a deal with SciTech and licence a limited Displaydoctor-version with a limit to... let's say 1024x768 with 256 colors ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:07 ] | <TheSeer> persell: that stuff is needef for a client but not for a server..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:32 ] | <persell> We spent a ton of bucks and time on the fixpacks to keep up with this stuff
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:11:54 ] | <Confed2> Imadode..........Sure, the server wouldn't care what was going on, it just "SERVES"
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:12:09 ] | <Longstaff> persell....and that was a good decision because that's the cutting edge on hardware
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:12:30 ] | <lmadode> by see them I meant they will never be developed for the client.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:12:37 ] | <persell> Welcome to my world
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:12:51 ] | <Confed2> Persell....License SciTech to do the drivers for now and in the future, then that relieves IBM of a MAJOR headache
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:13:45 ] | <persell> Next question...What should the LVM do?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:13:58 ] | <Confed2> Imadode.........True, they should just make them for the client and leave it at that
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:03 ] | <TheSeer> Manage the Partitions ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:08 ] | <Confed2> RUN FASTER IN GUI MODE!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:10 ] | <Swanee> Confed2: If Display Doctor is as good as advertised. Remember, we haven't even seen it physically yet.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:24 ] | <fire> persell: Perform a Frame Windows resize exactly (LVMGUI). :-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:26 ] | <_charly> persell... LVM.. i just remembered Partition Magic...:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:14:31 ] | <Confed2> Swanee...........True Enuff..............We can only PRAY :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:15:11 ] | <lmadode> persell: does LVM mess with the MBR? Is that why it clobbers NT on the same machine?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:15:16 ] | <TheSeer> persell: i wonder if it is possible to add a passwort-function to the bootmanager like many other free clones allready have..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:15:28 ] | <Swanee> LVM should carry over old BM selections.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:15:39 ] | <Klaus> persell: a hpfs->jfs conversion included in lvm would be cool to convert all these big drives on our servers
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:15:59 ] | <TheSeer> Klaus: good point :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:16:26 ] | <persell> lmadode: LVM doesn't...VCU does
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:16:36 ] | <lmadode> VCU?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:17:02 ] | <persell> lmadode: NTFS reports itself as HPFS
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:17:21 ] | <persell> Volume Conversion Utility
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:17:25 ] | <Judy> trixer: sorry about that...that hostess doesn't have very good manners :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:17:41 ] | <Confed2> Make it a NATIVE OS/2 program for the GUI.................JAVA Stinks!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:17:56 ] | <dink> java is sloww and crummy
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:00 ] | <TheSeer> persell: did you get my question about the passwort-thing ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:02 ] | <lmadode> It is slow
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:04 ] | <TheSeer> password even..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:07 ] | <persell> Swanee: It does...and we're making it easier to use
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:16 ] | <trixer> but java is your friend
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:17 ] | <Swanee> Confed2: I was actually impressed with how well it ran.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:19 ] | <persell> TheSeer: yep
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:30 ] | <TheSeer> ok :-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:33 ] | <Confed2> I think Swanee should make WarpZip in JAVA!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:52 ] | <persell> Ouch
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:18:58 ] | <trixer> its not java thats slow, its the JVM(s) and JRE(s) that are slow
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:19:19 ] | <Swanee> persell: I hadn't had much luck with it in that respect but I was leery of trying too much. :)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:19:21 ] | <TheSeer> persell: is there a way to add a - even simple - logon to the server before you can do anything special ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:19:23 ] | <persell> But its getting much better
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:19:48 ] | <_charly> trixer... for the user is Java...:)... What about Java 3d API for Warp on Aurora or clients to come???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:19:50 ] | <TheSeer> persell: doing the lockup on start is an "ugly" workaround to achive some kind of security..
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:20:01 ] | <Klaus> persell: does lvm allow to acces more than one primary partition on one HD at the same time? (mount primary1 as C: and primary2 as D:) ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:20:22 ] | <persell> TheSeer: Nope...unless WSOD
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:20:22 ] | <Swanee> Klaus: Yes...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:20:22 ] | <Confed2> Yes, but until SUN can get M$ to comply, they will be throwing to many resources at the court and not pushing forward as fast as they could
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:20:40 ] | <persell> Klaus: Intel architecture doesn't
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:08 ] | <Klaus> persell: linux can (on x86 machines)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:09 ] | <TheSeer> persell: so if the screen is not locked a freak can still access the whole system if he gets in touch with the local console ? wow ;-/
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:20 ] | <Swanee> Klaus: Oops, I have two available but on different drives
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:24 ] | <fire> persell: The process of creating a LV isn't very intuitive IMHO (at least with LVM, I didn't test it with LVMGUI so far)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:24 ] | <_charly> Persell... what about Java 3D API support?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:29 ] | <persell> That would imply booting two separate MBRs
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:21:57 ] | <fire> persell: ... a LV that spreads over several partitions...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:22:08 ] | <persell> TheSeer: The hooks are in Warp 4 and Aurora for SES applications
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:22:21 ] | <_charly> i would like to see a partition merger utility...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:22:26 ] | <Klaus> persell: and linux might be a alternative to Aurora for some customers
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:22:34 ] | <TheSeer> persell: i know about that hooks.. but i can't understand why ibm does not use them ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:22:56 ] | <persell> charly: I wish
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:23:01 ] | <TheSeer> persell: another thing.. i have ProcessCommander for my client here. It there a ps & kill for aurora coming ? ( badly needed to start/stop apps from telnet )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:23:51 ] | <_charly> YES... The Seer... you just read my mind.... I need a kill command unix like.... as part of the OS...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:23:53 ] | <fire> persell: LVM should also be able to *reduce* a LV in size.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:24:09 ] | <Swanee> persell: One other thing on LVM... A little more textual advice on what is happening during the installation would be nice.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:24:37 ] | <Confed2> Yea, with PQ leaving OS/2 in the dust, we have to rely on outdated software to get the job done
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:24:39 ] | <persell> TheSeer: I use PC too. I haven't seen plans for an IBM product. Watchcat and PC are still gonna be around
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:24:41 ] | <Klaus> TheSeer/_charly: a kill -9 would be nice.. so we don't have to reboot if some dll is blocked and can't be killed!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:20 ] | <TheSeer> persell: where's the problem to implement that into os/2 ? that pstat is a joke but not a usefull app ..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:23 ] | <_charly> I also want a simplier way to see the proceses.... like a pstat /main
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:42 ] | <_charly> or something that only show the parent processes names and IDS
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:43 ] | <persell> TheSeer: Time and money again
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:47 ] | <Confed2> Kinda like Hardware "MANAGER" neat but not very useful
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:25:51 ] | <TheSeer> persell: i guess if stardock does a warp client they won't mind to give you the ps /kill of PC..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:26:23 ] | <TheSeer> Confed2: Hardware-manger is nothing but just crap ;) rmview is still better..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:26:30 ] | <persell> Why do you want all the applications in the OS...?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:00 ] | * TheSeer wonders who came up with the name MANGAGER since it's just a dump viewer..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:05 ] | <_charly> persell... that are not apps... they are utilities...:)... you need them to get the OS up and running
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:27 ] | <Klaus> persell: it's cool to install warp and work with it without adding 100Meg's of useful tools .-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:38 ] | <TheSeer> persell: if i have to administrate a server i *REALLY* don't want to drive all the way to that system just to kill a task..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:48 ] | <Confed2> Obiqutios (sp) programs are still a long ways off and until we have a client version, so we need apps to be available today, not in the future
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:50 ] | <TheSeer> persell: so a "kill" is baaaaaadly needed..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:50 ] | <persell> The ISV's would argue on both of those points
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:53 ] | <_charly> can i change the Works app for the kill and the pstat /main???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:27:56 ] | <Klaus> persell: and on some big installations most of our customers don't like shareware like watchcat, they want IBM software
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:28:16 ] | <persell> PC is watchcat
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:28:33 ] | <TheSeer> it's based on it yes. but it's not IBM.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:29:01 ] | * trixer is away : [idle for [10 minutes ] ] (l:on , p:off )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:29:01 ] | <Confed2> Yea, it's kinda hard to sell a machine with SHAREWARE to rely on for basic functionality
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:29:08 ] | <TheSeer> people are lauphing at you if you can't kill a task from outside without installing a 3rd party app..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:29:51 ] | <fire> Did anyone manage to use Linux' NFS server with Aurora Preview's NFS 3.0 client?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:29:53 ] | <Confed2> Ahhh, but people also laugh at you when they find out you are running OS/2 :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:01 ] | <persell> Look up VAResearch Thom
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:06 ] | <Judy> the developer of watchcat assisted stardock with the development of PC
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:07 ] | <TheSeer> laughing even
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:12 ] | <_charly> is just basic utilitie... named one serius OS that don't have a kill utility??? (besides OS/2)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:15 ] | * TheSeer is sorry, but it's geting late here..
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:44 ] | <fire> WarpCenter has a kill utility. ;)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:30:58 ] | <Confed2> Quick run down.........26400 stinks
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:13 ] | <_charly> but Warp Center does not work when PM is blocked...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:26 ] | <Longstaff> functionality determines quality....if a thing works it doesn't matter who thought of it or how rich they are
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:30 ] | <TheSeer> and warpCenter can't be used via telnet..
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:34 ] | <Confed2> I mean I will take your word for it, I'm just going by what my customers say to me
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:36 ] | <persell> The TCPIP stack, LVM, and some of the device drivers are gewtting rebuilt
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:31:55 ] | <Klaus> persell / fire: even enabling the sc-kill-feature by default would be a good start
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:32:27 ] | <lmadode> There is the WC process kill utility in Warp. they just don't always work. And to be honest now that Netscape/2 has calmed down a bit, how often do you have such lockups?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:32:42 ] | <persell> The reason I asked what I did was that the ISV's are claiming the OS/2 market is gone
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:32:54 ] | <_charly> And some errors like Drive not ready shouldn't make a message on the system console (graphic display)....
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:13 ] | <persell> If everything is in the OS....they're right
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:14 ] | <fire> _charly: AUTOFAIL=YES
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:24 ] | <TheSeer> if IBM does not stop to force people to move to NT for some strange reason that'll be true in near future..
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:33 ] | <_charly> i mean if i made a telnet and i make a f: drive change to a zip drive and it is not ready...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:37 ] | <Klaus> lmadode: Java and Notes do lock my machine...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:52 ] | <TheSeer> persell: not everything. we're talking about a KILL for heavens sake...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:52 ] | <_charly> i can be at home... i no one at work will press enter for me at the machine at work....
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:33:55 ] | <Confed2> True....but if you can't get it from 3rd party.......why pursue it at all?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:34:18 ] | <Longstaff> persell....whenever a good practical warp app debuts you can feel the excitement
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:34:49 ] | <Confed2> It's getting to the point where OS/2 might be advanced when you get down to the nuts and bolts, but on the outside (where most everyone is) OS/2 is looking like a relic
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:34:52 ] | * lmadode runs MOTE on aurora. :-)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:34:58 ] | <TheSeer> persell: charly had a good point. there should be a way to handle errors different if you are on a telnet-login...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:35:11 ] | <persell> Someone earlier asked about the December 18th date...the code will not time bomb. Websphere might after 30 days. The December 18 date is for the support for the 200 beta customers
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:35:29 ] | <persell> How is MOTE Mark?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:35:47 ] | <fire> Will there be another preview before the GA?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:36:07 ] | <lmadode> persell: you can read all about it in the December VOICE Newsletter tomorrow. ;-)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:36:12 ] | <persell> I don't think there will be another preview
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:36:44 ] | <persell> This 5800 copy release was costly
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:02 ] | <Judy> <---signed up
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:07 ] | <Judy> <----didn't recieve
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:19 ] | <lmadode> Why didn't IBm charge for the beta like m$ does?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:22 ] | <Klaus> persell: for me a downlable 2nd beta via FTP would be OK too ,-)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:23 ] | <lmadode> :-)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:35 ] | <Judy> receive either
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:37:51 ] | <Confed2> Yea, ME TOO! Gotta love Cable Modems!
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:38:06 ] | <_charly> Imadode... cause the Beta market is also an MS market...:)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:38:14 ] | <persell> lmadode: We usually don't
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:38:43 ] | <persell> This was truely a beta...you don't charge for unfinished code
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:38:54 ] | * lmadode was referring to the buggy stuff m$ passes off as GA code.
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:38:57 ] | <Confed2> OK, then how about a fix for my Netscape Communicator/2???? LOLOLOLOLOL
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:39:05 ] | <Klaus> persell: so make always the latest beta downloadable from boulder... it would not be that expensive for you.
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:39:22 ] | <TheSeer> lmadode: *eg*
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:39:44 ] | * TheSeer now understands why the Communicator/2 is free...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:39:51 ] | <Confed2> Persell.....He does have a point, and FTP'ble 2nd preview would be very cost effective
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:39:53 ] | <_charly> persell... what can we do to help IBM with Aurora and Warp clients???
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:40:19 ] | <_charly> after all, if i am an IBM business partner i want to have IBM products on my clients...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:40:34 ] | <Confed2> TheSeer.....Question is..........For how long not that AOL has control!
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:40:52 ] | <_charly> but if i have to sell MS (i have to came back to Net.Commerce) then they will get MS products...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:40:53 ] | <TheSeer> Confed2: the /2-Version is copyright IBM though.. (afaik )
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:41:20 ] | <persell> Klaus: you're right...I'm trying
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:41:47 ] | <Confed2> Well...I already know about NS/2, I just wanted to bring it up here so that Mike could tell you all what he has already told me.....he's better at it :)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:42:43 ] | <persell> charly: Keep telling your reps you have customers that will buy clients
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:43:23 ] | <Longstaff> _charly - please tell them i'll buy several too
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:43:30 ] | <Confed2> MIke...........Your my Rep....................."THEY WILL BUY CLIENTS"
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:44:00 ] | <Confed2> :0
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:44:00 ] | <_charly> i can tell you... if you give me clients i will sell clients.....:)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:44:36 ] | <Confed2> For me, that's all I send out the door.........I have yet to sell a SERVER version of OS/2
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:45:28 ] | <_charly> just thing in banks on Mexico... lot of them had bought (what ever) WSOD and fat clients recently.... just to name; BITAL, INVERLAT, BBV, Santander, and other that are "minor banks"
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:46:15 ] | <_charly> what else? with Star Office i can sell clients to nayone without the "Office excuse"....
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:46:44 ] | <_charly> (i have to say is a shame IBM didn't make a good suite for Warp as Stardivision)
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:47:12 ] | <persell> I will sit here and not insult SS
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:47:18 ] | <Klaus> _charly: IBM-Germany had a contract with StarDivision... but got blocked from IBM-USA .-(((
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:47:53 ] | <persell> I will sit here and not insult SS
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:13 ] | <Joc_> ss?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:20 ] | <_charly> persell... i did liked SS before i saw StarOffice... i am not insulting SS, but is far away from any SS for Windows for example...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:27 ] | <Klaus> Joc_: SmartSuite ?
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:29 ] | <fire> persell: It would be great to have some advice about CID installation of pristine clients with Aurora where some parts reside on JFS.
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:35 ] | <TheSeer> persell: another problem i read in a german mag ( C't ). they tested the beta with NT.. they had problems to "re-export" a networkdrive mapped from an NT-Server..
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:36 ] | <_charly> Organizer is not for Workgroups....
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:48:50 ] | <_charly> and we have no Screen cam...
|
| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:00 ] | <persell> fire: The CID hasn't changed
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:14 ] | <lmadode> folks let's keep it to Aurora
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:14 ] | * Confed2 Wants an OS/2 Native of Organizer!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:21 ] | <Klaus> persell: I love WordPro, but it crashes much to often...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:38 ] | <Judy> Confed2: me too...so I'm looking forward to the speakup on Relish
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:44 ] | <_charly> Confed there's one native version on the last SS but is not workgoupable...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:56 ] | <fire> persell: What about "FormatJFS"?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:49:58 ] | <persell> fire: Remember that HPFS386 is better at NetBIOS though
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:02 ] | <TheSeer> persell: StarOffice runs on OS/2 without having a special version of a fixpack aplied..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:03 ] | * KoolAde From what I can see it that I have'nt been able to learn much about Auroa due to jumping all around
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:22 ] | * Confed2 Never had a need for one until recently..........Older versions YUK :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:31 ] | <_charly> the point is persell... the office is there... now we want to see IBM to push Warp...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:45 ] | <persell> WE are adding some strength to the format exe fire
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:49 ] | <_charly> and i think i am not the only one fighting alone... i now you are...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:50:55 ] | <_charly> and we want to know how to help
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:00 ] | * Longstaff participated in the SS beta and uses it for office stuff
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:18 ] | <fire> persell: Watching HPFS's chkdsk checking 8+ GB of disk space is very gripping... ;->
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:20 ] | <Confed2> OS/2 pushed people to office type setups, with it's stability, now IBM needs to give them want the offices want
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:24 ] | <trixer> What advantages would Aurora have over Other OS's like Linux?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:35 ] | <persell> Aren't we talking about a beta of a new OS/2 Server with new technology? We're fighting...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:51:48 ] | <Klaus> persell: adding an Undelete Like File-Phoenix (phoenix with >2G support and JFS-Support) to Aurora would be nice any chances for that ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:52:13 ] | <_charly> Klaus i agree.. undelete can be helpfull....:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:52:19 ] | <persell> trixer: Solid NetBIOS server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:52:23 ] | <Confed2> Yes, the Offices want a Client........This you can use for the Client debate in house :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:53:02 ] | <trixer> persell, explain
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:53:03 ] | <persell> Klaus: The undelete is being rebuilt to take advantage of the JFS
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:53:13 ] | <_charly> persell... why don't give support to SOM again???? i mean SOM is already part of the system... will it have support???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:53:50 ] | <TheSeer> persell: what about the doip ? does it support ISDN, redial and stuff or do i still need to install a "better" app for it ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:14 ] | <_charly> After all.. IBM steps are looking after CORBA....
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:16 ] | <Confed2> OH! Persell.............How is Open GL coming for Aurora? This is something that really needs fixing! I have a few programs that need it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:20 ] | <persell> trixer: an SMB server...file and print
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:30 ] | <persell> charly: SOM never left
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:44 ] | <Joc_> persell, any idea how many copies of Aurora is expected to be sold? 10k? 100k? 1M?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:49 ] | <_charly> ok... that's a relif as a developer...:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:54:53 ] | <trixer> persell, I feel that samba is pretty solid, maybe I'm missing something here
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:55:08 ] | <persell> TheSeer: Low priority on a server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:55:26 ] | <TheSeer> persell: depends on what you use that server for ;) but ok..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:56:11 ] | <trixer> persell, remember, I use warp at work on a mixed network of NT, 95, 98 Solaris BSD and linux
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:56:19 ] | <persell> trixer: multiple domains, aliasing, multiple workgroups, scalable for file and print
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:56:45 ] | <TheSeer> not to forget comport-sharing ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:56:51 ] | * TheSeer wonders if a windoze-client can use a shared comport now..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:56:57 ] | <persell> Big point TheSeer
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:57:19 ] | <Confed2> Just think, if someone was ingenious enough, they could get all the shareware and commercial products on one CD and distribute it as the OS/2 Add-On package, with this they could correct all the bugs in the current client and market it as
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:57:20 ] | <_charly> I am a little confussed,,, when you target Aurora for a server what kind of server are you thinking???? can you describe the functionalities of aurora in a short brief???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:57:27 ] | <TheSeer> Can any other OS take advantage of the shared comport btw ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:57:36 ] | <Confed2> "What OS/2 v5 should be!"
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:02 ] | <_charly> File sharing server???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:11 ] | <_charly> Comunication server?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:17 ] | <_charly> proxy Server?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:24 ] | <_charly> e-commerce Server?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:34 ] | <_charly> printing server?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:40 ] | <_charly> none of the above?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:49 ] | <Confed2> All of the above?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:58:57 ] | <persell> charly: Aurora is a newer Warp Server which is a highly reliable SMB server with an average of 9 months between reboots and is a platform for All the above
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:59:27 ] | <Confed2> modeled after the Warp v4 client.........correct?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 21:59:32 ] | <Joc_> persell, any idea how many copies of Aurora is expected to be sold? 10k? 100k? 1M?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:00:03 ] | <trixer> persell, netbios being a Layer-3 protocol, I think all netbios servers, daemons or whatever you want to call them are all the same. The performance depends on the hardware. This of course is my opinion and not based on fact.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:00:14 ] | <persell> More than 10k Joc
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:00:17 ] | <fire> persell: How can I determine uptime on Aurora?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:00:43 ] | <TheSeer> fire: get a software form an ISV *eg*
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:00:52 ] | <persell> trixer: NEtBIOS uses Ring 0 with HPFS386 in Warp Server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:01:15 ] | <persell> fire: I wouldn't yet...its a beta
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:01:19 ] | <TheSeer> fire: IBM does not want to stop ISV's to develop usefull things... (sorry Mike, still can't understand why os/2 does not ship with these smal things )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:01:59 ] | <_charly> does bidirectional printing is enhaced for Aurora?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:02:34 ] | <persell> charly: yes via the PAR1284.SYS driver
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:02:35 ] | <trixer> persell; I'm not trying to be difficult, really, I would like to know as much as I can about Aurora. Please enlighten me. :-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:02:39 ] | <fire> persell: Ok, how can I determine uptime on Warp Server v4? All uptime ports I know start counting with 0 again after 42 days or so.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:03:06 ] | <Confed2> One thing the SERVER does need..........PRINTER DRIVERS! and they have to support the latest printers and all their options
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:03:10 ] | <persell> trixer: There's a great set of white papers at www.ibm.com/os/warp
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:03:26 ] | <_charly> Scanner support can be expected on the drivers part?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:03:29 ] | <persell> Ooooops: www.software.ibm.com/os/warp
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:03:58 ] | <persell> charly: This is a server. I doubt you're see scanner support
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:04:10 ] | <TheSeer> persell: btw.. printers.. how about enabling a download of non-os/2-drivers for the specific client ? (like you can get a w95-driver even it's an NT-Server )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:04:17 ] | <trixer> how large of a drive can HPFS386 support now? I forgot
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:04:26 ] | <Confed2> Yes......We will need scanner support....But like Mike told me.....it's very hard to make a GENERIC type driver to cover all scanners....so I don't expect it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:05:04 ] | <TheSeer> you won't need a scanner-support on a server anyway do u ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:05:17 ] | <fire> trixer: 64GB AFAIK. But how long will it take to check 64GB after a system crash?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:05:20 ] | <persell> TheSeer: I believe we've done that in Warp Server
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:05:50 ] | <Confed2> That really depends on how you distribute the loads on your network........it could be the only place to put it
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:06:42 ] | <TheSeer> persell: another question: i sometimes (actually the notes5-beta died ;) have blocked dll's .. how can i get rid of them ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:07:03 ] | <TheSeer> persell: without rebooting the system though..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:07:40 ] | <Klaus> persell: it would be VERRY nice if i could kill blocked DLLs with WatchCat/PC could you add something on Aurora that we can make a "Kill -9" ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:07:40 ] | <Judy> well, folks...it's been a long day for Mike, so we're going to wrap this up for tonig
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:07:53 ] | <TheSeer> Judy: grmpf..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:01 ] | <Judy> Persell: Thanks again for providing information and assistance to the OS/2 community!!!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:04 ] | <Confed2> Anything that does not run in Ring-0 should be able to be unloaded? True? Possible?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:09 ] | <_charly> Persell... any way to contact you???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:12 ] | <Swanee> Yep, I think it's time to give Mike a break if he needs it. I'm sure his typing finger is bleeding by now. You are welcome to stay and chat.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:37 ] | <lmadode> How many people here are actually running Aurora?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:08:45 ] | <persell> charly: mpersell@us.ibm.com
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:09:01 ] | * lmadode <- running Aurora
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:09:03 ] | <TheSeer> persell: are we allowed to bother you ? *g*
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:09:06 ] | <_charly> thanx for all...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:09:13 ] | <Judy> Persell: can we expect another return visit after Aurora goes GA?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:09:27 ] | * fire is running aurora
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:16 ] | <fire> persell: thanks a lot!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:16 ] | * Confed2 is running Aurora but going back to v4 to run Communicator with plugins
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:16 ] | <persell> I am often on outside OS/2 projects...but I always read the e-mail. Be aware some answers I might have to search for
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:16 ] | <trixer> persell; nice meeting you
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:16 ] | * Klaus tried to run Aurora
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:39 ] | <persell> Thanks for inviting me back Judy
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:43 ] | <Judy> <-- really did meet persell :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:10:47 ] | <KoolAde> Well thank you persell :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:06 ] | * Swanee is running Warp4 but has Aurora installed on another machine.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:07 ] | <Joc_> Thanks for coming! :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:15 ] | <Klaus> persell: thanks for comming, nice to meet you
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:23 ] | <_charly> Thanx for comming Persell...
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:42 ] | <Swanee> Great to have you Mike, Thanks!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:42 ] | <KoolAde> I just hope we did'nt scare you away with all the MS and NT stuff
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:43 ] | <persell> Judy: You guys didn't take pictures at Warpstock 97 did you?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:11:44 ] | <TheSeer> persell: is there anything we have changed / helped with ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:07 ] | <persell> TheSeer: I always send feedback to Austin
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:12 ] | <_charly> persell... lokk at Warpstock site...:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:20 ] | <Judy> persell: yes, Mike Briggs and one of the SCOUG guys took alot of pics
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:30 ] | <Swanee> Judy: You met Mike? At WS 97 or 98? (I missed out on 97)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:33 ] | <Judy> SCOUG=Tony Anton
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:48 ] | <Judy> swanee: ws97
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:12:51 ] | <persell> I did a talk on device drivers at 97
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:05 ] | <_charly> i did missed 98...:(((((
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:10 ] | <TheSeer> persell: maybe i can add one thing ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:18 ] | <persell> go ahead
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:29 ] | <_charly> persell... i was ... Mr... FLT??? or DRV... or SYS... or Kernetl....
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:37 ] | <_charly> i don't remember...:)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:52 ] | <TheSeer> persell: thanx ;) One thing i LOVE on Linux is that you don't have to restart the system for anything except hardware-changes.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:13:57 ] | <Confed2> Ok, well I got you all beat, I talk to Persell all the time :):):):LOLOOLOLOLOL
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:14:08 ] | <TheSeer> persell: the most time i have to restart os/2 is because of changes to the libpath.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:14:21 ] | <TheSeer> persell: using tvfs this is not needed.. ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:15:07 ] | <TheSeer> persell: it might be a HELL of a lot faster and easier to maintain then.. (installing app's without breaking the network-support )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:15:13 ] | <persell> That's a major rebuild of the kernel for VFS TheSeer...one bite at a time
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:15:30 ] | <persell> You missed Tom?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:15:32 ] | <TheSeer> persell: you already have TVFS.. :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:15:50 ] | <TheSeer> just an idea though ;-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:14 ] | <persell> JFS is not quite VFS
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:14 ] | <Swanee> persell: well... yeah... :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:46 ] | <TheSeer> btw idea.. *g* can you reboot aurora from comandline without clicking OK now ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:46 ] | <persell> Tom's a lot of fun
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:46 ] | <persell> Nope
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:46 ] | <TheSeer> like a "shutdown -r now" -feature..
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:56 ] | <persell> You Unix guys are never satisfied
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:16:59 ] | <Schlappi> TheSeer: setboot /b ?
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:20 ] | <TheSeer> persell: *g* i'm the biggest OS/2-enthusiast known here ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:46 ] | <Swanee> persell: I must have been in the wrong places at the wrong times. I really met alot of great folks though.
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:46 ] | <TheSeer> persell: but i need some kind of help for remote-admin-stuff (i maintain some os/2-boxes i can dial in form my office )
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:46 ] | <_charly> persell... what happened with all the old AIX for PC stuff???
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:46 ] | <Confed2> Persell, how about a better shutdown routine in Aurora, Like maybe immediate without user intervention!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:17:49 ] | <Klaus> persell: if you'd release the WPS for X I would be satisfied ,-)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:18:19 ] | <persell> Keep asking and I'll keep trying...you haven't a guy in LA named Don Bowers he's really big!!! ;)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:18:23 ] | <TheSeer> persell: and i sometimes need to call a guy to hit ctrl-alt-del to reboot the system since i can't do it from here.. -> SUXX ,9
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:18:58 ] | <Swanee> Confed2: Actually for shutdown, there should be a choice of shutdown types and a "process killer" :)
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:19:03 ] | * Confed2 thinks the shutdow routine in M$ is it's BEST feature!
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| [ 12-14-98 ] [ 22:19:06 ] | <persell> Gotta go...thanks for the continued support of OS/2 and the helpful suggestions
|