SpeakUp with Serenity Systems & Mensys from 12/15/2000

<MADodel>	Look what the cat drug in
<BobStJohn>	... I'm out of breath ... running to get here
<Sector>	Hi there Smazesofa
<Smazesofa>	Yep!
<OS2NL>	hello!
<Sector>	It's BobStJohnÐÐÐ
<Smazesofa>	Hey Sector.
<BobStJohn>	Yes .. it is.
<BobStJohn>	Of course, I could be an alternate personality
<MADodel>	You are late. Our two German viewers just left
<Chrissy>	hi everyone
<BobStJohn>	Interesting .. did Joachim come at all?
<Sector>	Hi Chrissy
<Sector>	Ummm, well...
<MADodel>	No, Ulrich Moeller was here
<BobStJohn>	He was one of the two?
<MADodel>	yes
<MADodel>	Can't keep the Germans waiting. I think they pay by the micro-second for connect time
<BobStJohn>	OK .. I sent him a message ... maybe I'll get him back
<BobStJohn>	I see OS2NL his here .. That would be Roderick Klein .. who works at Mensys between semesters
<MADodel>	I have to leave in half an hour to pick up my daughter. The school gets upset when we leave kids there overnight
<Sector>	They've had enough of them by then
<OS2NL>	If all goes well I will ask Mensys if I can get a permanent job in february next year... At the moment I'm working on my end project...
<BobStJohn>	Well, I'm not sure where you want to start. Seems like we just did this a week ago. ;-)
<MADodel>	Is Kim stopping by?
<MADodel>	BobStJohn: I was hoping your alter ego from usenet would come. That would make for an interesting session.
<BobStJohn>	Don't know ... I know he's been heads down on stuff ... so I've tended to leave him alone
<Sector>	Hi ulli
<ulli>	Dunno what just happened... didn't get any messages here. Hi Bob!
<MADodel>	Guess mr. Martin is busy saving the world from eCS
<BobStJohn>	Ulrich has been kind enough to participate in our GUI update project
<BobStJohn>	And I expect we will have some more work with him on a more formal level.
<BobStJohn>	Mr. Martin .. amazing. I'm coming to believe there is no real Mr. Martin.
<OS2NL>	Just a small note about the generic WIN/OS2 driver. John Gow expects to have a new version under "XMAS tree"....
<OS2NL>	This thing will have MIDI support in WIN/OS2...
<MADodel>	Yet more good news
<BobStJohn>	No secret that he posted a rumor stating that Serenity Systems was in financial trouble and our plan to get out of it was to migrate OS/2 - eCS users to Windows.
<BobStJohn>	Of course ... he didn't explain where the money would be in such a strategy, since all our stuff is OS/2.
<MADodel>	Now all we need is a generic OS/2 sound driver and Kim's CD boot version can have complete sound
<OS2NL>	For next year full duplex WIN/OS2 and SB emulation for OS/2 DOS sessions is next on the menu
<OS2NL>	Aaaah!
<OS2NL>	Wrong (quiz buzzer :) )
<OS2NL>	The generic WIN/OS2 driver uses an OS/2 audio PDD to access the souncard!
<BobStJohn>	But I'm not going to take mention of our finances lightly, so that could have been lawyer time. Problem is, I can't even prove the guy is real.
<ulli>	Bob: I remember seeing a discussion on the Stardock news server a couple of months ago where they managed to find out who that guy apparently was.
<MADodel>	I don't think he is real. I think he is a kid with a mental problem.
<OS2NL>	One thing is strange, the warpcity site is updated very frequently....
<BobStJohn>	One thing we should point out is that I'm keen to get some action on the software which will accompany the GA eCS.
<OS2NL>	I don't think somebody would invest much time just for fun...
<MADodel>	OS2NL: So it won't work off a CD boot?
<OS2NL>	That is the point of the generic WIN/OS2 driver!
<OS2NL>	Its an audio driver that passes audio data from WIN/OS2
<OS2NL>	sessions TO the PDD (Physical Device Driver) of any OS/2 supported audio card!
<BobStJohn>	Jim Burke has been willing to step up to head the 'adoption' process ... and I don't have his url handy
<BobStJohn>	I'm sure Dan can post it ... he's like that ...
<MADodel>	I don't think Dan is here
<MADodel>	At least not in Body
<BobStJohn>	The thing is, if there are applications users would like to see "WiseMachine" enabled .. then we need to get those scripts going so those apps are supported.
<OS2NL>	Say anybody interested in an MPPM/2 uninstall ?
<BobStJohn>	Besides this .. we can include marketing materials, trials, demos, and products in the packaging.
<MADodel>	http://www.ionet.net/~jimburke/ecs/3rdparty.htm
<OS2NL>	(something nice for ecomstation ???)
<Sector>	Hi DSOM_eCS
<DSOM_eCS>	Hello a..
<DSOM_eCS>	all.
<OS2NL>	If I remeber it CORRECTLY
<OS2NL>	I saw something like that at the MMPM/2 japan site...
<BobStJohn>	What I'm particularly interested in ... is getting those software packages which users would enjoy ..and which do not add cost to the product .. because I'm not willing to change pricing at this time.
<BobStJohn>	Soooooo ..... if there are any "favorites" that folks would like to see going into the packaging .. it's time to visit the URL which Mark posted so ...efficiently.
<ulli>	Bob: If you haven't figured it out... I'm Ulrich Moeller. What do I have to do to "adopt" my own XWorkplace package? Kim showed me WiseMachine in Karlsruhe, and I believe "adopting" is writing a REXX script?
<ulli>	I also talked with Kim about making some sort of transition possible between WarpIN and WiseMachine. Has he mentioned that again?
<BobStJohn>	Yes ... that's the key part .. but it's also providing some information which would help the user. And I don't think you need to actually write the script .. because you don't need to know REXX to adopt an app
<BobStJohn>	As to WiseMachine and WarpIN ... best to have those discussions directly with Kim. I don't have any info.
<ulli>	OK. I must admit that I still don't have eCS here, except for the very, very early preview that Kim sent me in September.
<DSOM_eCS>	ulli - Adoption is not that difficult. Object Package (from Object Desktop) would do most of the work.
<ulli>	DSOM: Now that's good. ;-) I wrote XWorkplace because I don't have OD.
<BobStJohn>	OK .. email me and address and I'll get you a copy of "preview 2" .. though, for all practical purposes .. it is very similar to what went out in October .. still you are talking September so that had to be a "private" drop to you.
<MADodel>	XWP 0.9.6 works fine on the eCS Preview
<ulli>	Bob: Yes it was. It was before the "official" preview.
<David>	Hi everybody
<BobStJohn>	Ok .. just let me know where to send it.
<ulli>	Bob: OK. I'll send you my snailmail address.
<ulli>	Bob: Is there anything else you'd like to discuss right now WRT XWorkplace? Problem is, I gotta go in about ten minutes...
<BobStJohn>	No ... I want to thank you for your work and suggestions.
<BobStJohn>	I know we aren't done .. we'll have more of a relationship later.
<ulli>	OK. I've told you you are very welcome... thanks for everything you are doing in the first place.
<BobStJohn>	I really wish Joachim was here ... so he could update us on the GUI update .. but David might be the guy to do that, now.
<MADodel>	Any chance IBM will let anyone look at the source for the WPS?
<BobStJohn>	MADodel There is always a chance. But right now we have limited the discussion to MMOS2
<ulli>	Bob: The discussion with IBM?
<BobStJohn>	And there will be no word on that until after the holidays
<BobStJohn>	Yes .. we asked for access to WPS, WarpCenter .. told them we wanted to work on anti-alias fonts.
<BobStJohn>	We also wanted MMOS2 to work on MM for OS/2 (eCS)
<MADodel>	In regard to MMOS2, is that just fixing bugs, or actually plans to modernize the multi-media support?
<BobStJohn>	The discussions hit a couple of seasonal hurdles .. end of year crunches
<BobStJohn>	end of year vacations
<ulli>	About WarpCenter.... that's not really needed. I have already rewritten WarpCenter last week. It's not that difficult, the sources are on CVS right now. The "XCenter" can already do everything the WarpCenter can. But it supports plugin DLLs.
<BobStJohn>	and an unusual ammount of personnel turnover
<MADodel>	The election
<ulli>	Sorry, CVS means Netlabs CVS.
<BobStJohn>	Our primary contact in IBM just got back from vacation and found out that, while he was in Puerta Villarta, the lawyer he was working with left IBM.
<MADodel>	ulli: That is great news
<MADodel>	Will that be part of XWP?
<BobStJohn>	I think a key to getting initial access to source is to ask for things on which there was no Microsoft collaboration.
<MADodel>	BobSt.John: You mean he didn't take his lawyer on vacation with him?
<ulli>	I'm a bit proud of the XCenter... Martin Lafaix has also started contributing, and more people have expressed interest. The engine is working, what's missing is plugins for more monitors (TCP/IP, POP mail etc.).
<BobStJohn>	LOL
<ulli>	The XCenter is currently part of the XWP sources and tied to that.
<DSOM_eCS>	ulli - I believe that there is a copy of Object Desktop "lite" on the Application Sampler CD which shipped with Warp 4.
<David>	Hi again..
<BobStJohn>	DSOM_eCS Yes
<David>	It is a 30 day evaluation version...
<BobStJohn>	Hi David .. can you update folks on where the GUI project is?
<David>	Yes, I can...
<ulli>	Gee it's been four years that I looked at the application sampler... I'll take a look.
<BobStJohn>	David Would you, then ... please?
<David>	Alessandro created a nice set of new icons.
<David>	We are now looking which we still miss
<BobStJohn>	C'mon, David .. there has been more than that going on.
<David>	Also we discussed a change in the layout of the desktop. That is: which folders
<David>	are going to be on the desktop
<David>	and where on the desktop we put it.
<ulli>	I have been discussing a couple of things with Alessandro on the technical level (replacing the help system, for example), but that won't make it for GA. I guess that what can be done for GA is replacing the icons
<ulli>	and changing the standard desktop layout.
<David>	Also have we been looking at the dialogs.
<David>	With the techniques of DE some of them will be updated
<David>	To look better, and be more intuitive
<BobStJohn>	As you can imagine .. the interest in modifying the UI is broad and active. We are trying to simply define what will be the first GA cut. Then carry on a project to continue updating and enhancing.
<David>	It is the intention that everything can be easily changed through WiseMachine.
<MADodel>	Replacing the help system with what?
<David>	The idea which came up is to replace it with a searchable HTML based help system...
<ulli>	MADodel: We are still discussing. The OS/2 help system is a bit dated and looks ugly. It needs a rework. But that won't make it in time for GA.
<David>	Which would make it easier to update and maintain. But it is very complicated to do so.
<David>	The help system is very much tied in with the system.
<ulli>	The engine is the same for VIEW.EXE and the PM help system. Replacing view is as simple as creating an executable. Replacing the help APIs for applications is much more difficult.
<ulli>	Sorry, gotta go now... it's friday night, and I have a date... I'll read the transscript and get back to you, Bob. Nice talking to you again!
<DSOM_eCS>	Later ulli.
<Sector>	Ok ulli, thanks for stopping by
<BobStJohn>	A date .. ah, yes .. I remember dating when I was young, thin, single, and in Berlin
<BobStJohn>	Viel spass
<David>	In all we want to change the GUI to be more consistent over all.
<David>	Have fun ulli
<ulli>	Bob: merci...
<OS2NL>	sorry have to go, my end project...
<BobStJohn>	ulli de nada .. besides, you speak better German than I ever did. Do you date the US Touristas in the summer?
<BobStJohn>	Well .. he'll have to answer that on after the log, I guess.
<David>	That is that we want to put programs that belong together together and not spread them all over the WPS
<BobStJohn>	David btw ,, Kim wants to show some of the UI stuff at SCOUG tomorrow. Would be great if you or Joachim or someone could help him.
<BobStJohn>	Any questions for our UI expert?
<David>	I think I could get him a patched DLL so he can show the new icons.
<BobStJohn>	We are very lucky to have Ulrich, Richard Castle, Nicky Morrow, Alessandro (Syler/2) and other working on the UI.
<BobStJohn>	David by all means .. send it along to Kim .. with any comments and suggestions you think are appropriate .. so he knows what he's doing.
<David>	Okay. Remind me at the end of the speakup :-)...
<BobStJohn>	DSOM_eCS You want to say anything about Coral Reef?
<BobStJohn>	DSOM_eCS You there, Senor Plant?
<DSOM_eCS>	Who me?
<BobStJohn>	duh
<DSOM_eCS>	:-)
<BobStJohn>	:-)
<Sector>	No the other plant over there in the corner
<BobStJohn>	Yeah .. the wall flower
<DSOM_eCS>	Nothing much to discuss at the moment. Still quiet..low key. Unofficial.
<BobStJohn>	DSOM_eCS OK .. then I won't say a word about it. Count on my discretion!
<DSOM_eCS>	In other words....much like the plant itself....low key, quiet...unofficial.
<BobStJohn>	So ... is there anyone here?
<BobStJohn>	Any sort of question .. or comment?
<BobStJohn>	Anyone want to buy anything?
<BobStJohn>	Hmm .... I'm feeling ... alone.
<DSOM_eCS>	A vowel?
<David>	I am still here...
<Sector>	Present and accounted for
<BobStJohn>	No, no .. don't go to the attic .. *he* could be up there .. with a knife or other maiming object!
<BobStJohn>	I worry about being alone
<BobStJohn>	So, Chrissy .. what flavor ice cream in the freezer
<Sector>	How's Preview 2 doing—
<Chrissy>	burgundy cherry and chocolate chunks :)
<BobStJohn>	Preview 2 ... preview 2 is just a test to reconcile some hardware issues. Nothing remarkable. Seems to be fine.
<BobStJohn>	Though the plan is to replace the installer by GA if at all possible.
<BobStJohn>	Chrissy Geez .. whatever happened to vanilla!
<Chrissy>	vanilla is boring LOL
<DSOM_eCS>	After or beyond GA....what will be the next major project?
<Sector>	Well, you can always add to the vanilla
<BobStJohn>	I'm not a product guy .. but IBM feels good about the work Kim is doing to enable a new front end for the CID installer and that will be a lot easier for folks.
<David>	I think most of you have read on Kim's progress with the bootable CD in the eGroups list. It is of course one huge step forward in the ease of installation when he/we get everything working.
<BobStJohn>	Once the GA comes out we get a little more agressive about marketing above and beyond the OS/2 advocates who have been so helpful up to this point.
<DSOM_eCS>	Hmmmm....front end for CID installer.....interesting.
<BobStJohn>	We continue to work on the UI
<BobStJohn>	Hopefully we can get started on improving MM so we have a more Inet capable 'experience'.
<BobStJohn>	DVD player is still on the radar.
<BobStJohn>	One thing I'm interested in is Kim's new CD runnable eCS
<David>	The CID installer is a very power full means of scripting the installation process.
<BobStJohn>	Runnable CDs could be a powerful way to handle line of business workstations .. customer service, reservations, and so forth. You could create custom runnable CDs for users and customers.
<DSOM_eCS>	Yes...would make good Kiosk applications.
<BobStJohn>	You could support Inet appliances .. even mail out monthly updates to subscribers
<BobStJohn>	Seems to be very quiet on the ... cyber front
<BobStJohn>	I get antsy
<Sector>	Single step upgrade, simply replace the CDROM
<David>	And fool proof :-)
<BobStJohn>	Nothing is fool proof. You have no idea how clever a fool can be.
<BobStJohn>	They think of things that a non-fool ... well, you get the idea.
<DSOM_eCS>	It would be interesting to see a blurring of lines between RIPL and CID. The end goal for both is to deploy applications but quite often the methods used are world's apart.
<BobStJohn>	DSOM_eCS See.... there you go. A comment ... a heckuva comment. I have no clue wrt it's import .. but I love the basic dichotomy
<Joachim>	Hye all
<BobStJohn>	Hi, Cowboy
<Sector>	Welcome Joachin
<Joachim>	Sorry i'm late
<David>	I think in WiseManager is already stepping in and making use of both RIPL and CID techniques.
<DSOM_eCS>	Hello Joachin.
<BobStJohn>	It's OK .. the critical mass was not attained.
<Joachim>	Someone told me it would be at 8 PM
<BobStJohn>	Well, you are late even for 8PM
<BobStJohn>	David talked about the UI project ... and you don't know what he said
<BobStJohn>	Care to add anything?
<Joachim>	nope
<Joachim>	What should i add?
<Joachim>	Things are looking very well, imho.
<BobStJohn>	Well .. I hope so .. cuz, you da man!
<BobStJohn>	You are in charge
<Joachim>	that's why i say i think it's looking good of course, duh ;-)
<os2r>	re
<BobStJohn>	OH .oh .. that sounds like a Euro
<Joachim>	I got one comment today from a *new* eCS user who stated:
<os2r>	may i ask a question about install with a cd changer?
<Joachim>	eComStation is sooo cool, it is the coolest i've seen, better than BeOS, Linux, Win9x !
<Joachim>	I like those comments ;-)
<BobStJohn>	os2r Sure ... as long as you can accept I don't know as an answer ... fire away
<BobStJohn>	Find the new guy and begin a cloning program, asap
<BobStJohn>	os2r the floor is yours
<Joachim>	he's pretty silent.
<os2r>	i've installed ecom station on my all scsi machine with no problem.....i've removed it to start installing warp on other office machines....this one i'm trying is ide with a panasonic 5 cd changer.....ecom starts the install ok but when it does the first reboot, it can't find the cd in the changer then installs basic warp....i can't get the networking to install nor the java
<DSOM_eCS>	David - Well, I think that some CID methods are performed during WiseManager installation and configuration. But this is like the local re-directed sort of techniques. I don't know if CID (and all else like response files etc.) are used in the case of non-hd RIPL clients with WiseManager although no one is preventing you from say running like NetView DM/2 as well.
<Joachim>	os2r - how comes it starts installing 'basic' warp?
<Joachim>	It cannot find the CD right?
<os2r>	because it says it can't find the cd so it will install basic warp......then it does, fine
<os2r>	after the 1st reboot, it cannot find the cd, correct
<Joachim>	so, why does it install basic warp? Where does it get the files?
<os2r>	the changer goes through all the 5 slots and even though the cd is in slot 1 it says it can't find it
<os2r>	before the first reboot, it finds the cd fine
<Joachim>	Weird
<Joachim>	David?
<David>	Do you use Daniela's driver on first boot?
<os2r>	i have another cd drive but the cd changer is a much older model and i can't connect another cd drive
<os2r>	it won't let me chose d
<David>	You are booting from diskette?
<os2r>	yes
<Joachim>	You should be able to insert the CD in any drive you have available, iirc
<David>	Did you need any special driver for your CD changer?
<os2r>	no, seemed to find it fine....
<os2r>	btw, when i had ecom on this machine, mine, i liked it, especially desktop on call. :-) can't wait for the ga
<Joachim>	it must have to do with a changed IDE / ATAPI setting.
<Joachim>	GA will be neat
<BobStJohn>	os2r
<os2r>	it seems to be a scsi cd changer connected to a card...let me check
<os2r>	yes
<BobStJohn>	os2r maybe you should post this on news.ecomstation.nl or egroups where we might get Dani to look at it.
<Joachim>	Okay, SCSI... That is different, there have been lot of things going on wrt SCSI.
<David>	I know of rare instance that the CDROM drivers are not in the config.sys, you could check for their presence...
<os2r>	i haven't been able to get to ecomstation.nl...as of this morning it was not available
<BobStJohn>	os2r Yeah .. I noticed that, too.
<os2r>	David: when i installed winNT on that same machine, it found an adaptec scsi controller so that is also on the basic setup for ecom station, isn't it?
<BobStJohn>	Saves a lot of my time .. not having to read all the fan mail .. well a lot of it is fan mail, you know
<David>	Yes, adaptec is supported in the basic setup. Is your harddisk also SCSI?
<os2r>	no, it isn't scsi, just checked......
<DSOM_eCS>	Dani knows her stuff.
<os2r>	it's the harddrive that's connected to the scsi card
<Joachim>	Okay, i'll elaborate a bit on the newsserver issue.
<os2r>	let me try again to use the dani drivers.....thanks folks.........good work Bob.....keep it up........
<Joachim>	news.ecomstation.nl has been moved over from Notes to Changi and is running better since,
<Joachim>	so we decided to add more newsgroups to split out the threads accordingly
<Joachim>	All was pretty well, until a major powerfailure hit yesterday and (all) servers went down.
<DSOM_eCS>	There are a few bugs in Dani 137...so get the upgrade.
<os2r>	where's the upgrade?
<Joachim>	Changi wasn't coming up rightaway, and i started it this morning but had to clean up / expire the news.
<David>	You can find it on: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu
<os2r>	i purchased the preview ecom which will give me the ga.....what about the purchase of support? is there any support included in the basic price or is it time to make that commitment as well?
<David>	Search for Danis506 and daniatapi
<Joachim>	This has caused all messages older than 7 days to be wiped out. Luckily i received an offer from Dan Casey to restore all messages he has mirrored.
<Joachim>	So probably old threads can return, we'll look into that early next week. At the sametime we will be investigating the setup of a mirror newsserver so trouble like this will have less impact.
<Joachim>	Thanks to everyone for their patience and help with the newsserver, so far.
<Joachim>	(BTW all our servers are running on Warp Server for eBusiness on SMP hardware)
<os2r>	ok...just got dani stuff. i'll copy that over to the diskettes.....which diskette is it?
<Joachim>	disk 1
<David>	On disk 1. And you need to add set copyfromfloppy=1 to the config.sys
<Joachim>	(disk 2 if you count in a human fashin)
<David>	Also I would suggest to rename danis506.add in ibm1s506.add so it is used after reboot...
<BobStJohn>	So ...we doing support on VOICE's irc server during .. well ... I guess it's OK. Nothing else was going on. Its
<BobStJohn>	it's a little like watching surgery being performed
<David>	Only less blood :-)
<Joachim>	you are right Bob.
<Joachim>	We should be discussing more generic and interesting stuff.
<Skip>	I know Kim is very busy, but I wondered if he was going to check in here today.
<Joachim>	i guess not, skip
<Skip>	Understood.
<Joachim>	it is very silent... are there any questions wrt eComStation, GA, included apps, suggestions? Whatever?
<BobStJohn>	I guess not ...
<BobStJohn>	Well, who is in charge, here?
<Skip>	Is there any news about content of developer tools?
<DSOM_eCS>	I don't know.....is this group mostly Europe today?
<Joachim>	i am
<Joachim>	;-)
<Joachim>	david is...
<Skip>	Iowa,USA here.
<Chrissy>	where in Iowa Skip???
<BobStJohn>	Well, the OS/2 Developer Kit is in there. I was having conversations with MicroEdge about some deal on the OS/2 version of Visual Slick Edit.
<BobStJohn>	But .. the programmer kit or eCS programmer Workbench ..or whatever, moved to the back burner.
<Joachim>	Ah. Speaking of deals, we arranged a discount on BackAgain/2000 server which works with JFS/LVM.
<Skip>	Burlington, Chrissy.
<Chrissy>	I see :) I was in Cedar Falls
<BobStJohn>	And Chris Graham has expressed interest in updating his work to support large disks and get into the act.
<DSOM_eCS>	Joachim - Not that's cool. Discount only as part of an eCS sale or all WiseXXX products?
<DSOM_eCS>	Joachim - Now that's cool. Discount only as part of an eCS sale or all WiseXXX products?
<BobStJohn>	btw .. joachim .. I have a feeling no one has been talking ot Richard Clements .. the German we had lunch with in October. I need to go stoke that a bit, I think.
<Joachim>	Hm. Inititally on eComStation, but i'm sure they're open for other suggestions.
<Joachim>	yup. I guess we should, nice fellow, BTW.
<os2r>	David: are you saying rename danis506.add and name is ibm1s506.add?
<Joachim>	he is
<os2r>	thanks
<os2r>	and how about the atapi?
<Joachim>	that way you'll make sure OS/2 copies (and uses) the right driver
<Skip>	An update to C. Graham's disk tools would be great!! (Weather here - freezing rain now as we chat, Blizzard scheduled for tommorow - No Joke)
<David>	Keep the name for danisatap.flt
<Joachim>	you won't need atapi on install, iirc
<BobStJohn>	Well, between now and the end of the month I'll be pushing for application information. Solution Technologies, the scanner folks, are interested in getting some of their apps visible on eCS
<DSOM_eCS>	Sounds like the reunion of some old players/developers.
<BobStJohn>	Those that are still around. Maybe we should make this a focus for Warpstock .. see if we can't build up the exhibit area ... get it to what it was three years ago ..
<DSOM_eCS>	Impos?
<Skip>	Bob - Have sales of ECS been what you anticipated, or would you rather not say?
<BobStJohn>	For a suggestion .. which flies in the face of Warpstock .. maybe we should try and get OS/2 skilled consultants to come and talk about supporting small businesses.
<BobStJohn>	Impos/2 .. applause .. I don't remember
<MADodel>	BobStJohn: You mean corporations with less then 50,000 seats?
<David>	Applause uses the engine of STi, but it is not a STi product itself...
<Joachim>	BTW for the BackAgain/2000 offer check http://shop.mensys.nl/catalogue/mns_BACK2000.html - the article is listed below as 303879
<BobStJohn>	MADodel I mean more than 5 seats
<DSOM_eCS>	I have an old Impos/2 here...looks like compart.
<BobStJohn>	Maybe less than seats, too. ;-)
<MADodel>	Compart has just released an update to Impos/2 drivers, but I hear the web site is German only
<BobStJohn>	Leon Z (www.stiscan.com) has been talking to me .. but I'm not sure what I should be asking for
<os2r>	thanks Joachim.....i'm going to see if it installs now......
<MADodel>	USB scanner support
<MADodel>	SCSI scaneers are becoming diffcult to find
<Joachim>	well. We have them (of course ;-) http://shop.mensys.nl/cgi-bin/db2www/mnl_art2.d2w/report?catname=SM636
<David>	Consumer SCSI scanners are indeed getting extinct :-(. But high end (50ppm) is SCSI only... But USB scanner support is a must to keep us up with the rest of the field...
<MADodel>	There is no USB scanner supported under OS/2. That is a big problem.
<Joachim>	I think USB support may come... eventually.
<David>	The people who ported SANE are looking into it.
<MADodel>	Especially if you plan to eventually attract windoze users
<David>	They just need someone to write the USB driver. SANE itself already supports many of the USB scanners...
<MADodel>	Any word from IBM on better base USB support? That is more then just Intel support
<DSOM_eCS>	The other side of the coin is finding image editing software with features equivalent to the Win and Mac platforms. I don't work with that type of software but I imagine that some folks do.
<Joachim>	You have Impos/2, it's pretty powerfull!
<Joachim>	(More than you would say at first sight)
<DSOM_eCS>	I have not used Impos/2 in over 4 years....I hope they kept adding features.
<Joachim>	well. You should give it a second try, it's very nice. Totally REXX prorammable too.
<Skip>	Gotta go chip ice off the car. Goodbye for now.
<DSOM_eCS>	Later Skip.
<Joachim>	good luck
<David>	Bye Skip
<BobStJohn>	I'm here ... I'm here! But ... is there any reason for me to be here?
<Joachim>	how come i see about 20 people in the list, but it's so quiet?
<Joachim>	(Ah same Q)
<BobStJohn>	Bathroom break?
<BobStJohn>	Anyone want to guess what I'm wearing .. or not wearing?
<DSOM_eCS>	Maybe I should dust off and power up the old SCSI flatbed scanner.
<Joachim>	you're in Texas right?
<BobStJohn>	... yes, Cowboy
<Joachim>	... well... guess a big HAT then ;-)
<BobStJohn>	LOL
<Joachim>	(we could start on Bush) - NO let's not do *that!*
<BobStJohn>	Well, Joachim .. you have to get to bed early. You have a lot of work to do.
<os2r>	Joachim: now it can't get to the cd at all...at the second diskette the machine stops with the message it can't control the harddrive.....did it once with the normal install and once with the disable hardware detection....both had same result....cannot use the "D" option
<BobStJohn>	You need to work on the application packaging .. and the UI. Not that you have to do it.
<Joachim>	as a matter of fact i do, i have a fair tomorrow, like Kim.
<BobStJohn>	Well, show them the new UI ..
<BobStJohn>	like Kim
<Joachim>	showing of eCS again ;-)
<Joachim>	I will.
<BobStJohn>	Make sure Kim knows what to do .. goodness knows he can't count on me.
<BobStJohn>	Well ... I'm outtahere.
<Joachim>	okay, anyone have an urgent question for Bob????
<BobStJohn>	love, kisses and lollipops .. you know how to reach me
<Joachim>	Don't let him slip away ;-)
<DSOM_eCS>	BobStJohn - Thanks again....see you later.
<Joachim>	oops... too late guus.
<DSOM_eCS>	Hmmm.
<MADodel>	os2r: Is that a mixed SCSI IDE machine?
<Joachim>	guys
<Joachim>	damn, my OpenChat will expire soon.
<David>	os2r: can you send an e-mail to the support groups on the news server and include your config.sys from disk 1?
<Joachim>	Forgot to register...
<MADodel>	hehehehe, doesn't Mensys sell OC/2?
<David>	Guess we do...
<DSOM_eCS>	Can one still register OC/2?
<Joachim>	I do have it, just not on my thinkpad.
<os2r>	MADodel: yes it seems to be
<os2r>	David: as soon as I can get to the newsserver I will. thanks
<DSOM_eCS>	Maybe a better question would be - Are updates still being produced?
<Joachim>	to OpenChat: No.
<Joachim>	It's terrific, but lacks support currently :-(
<MADodel>	os2r: Then try changing the postion/sequence of your IDE and SCSI drivers
<os2r>	MADodel: wow...how do i do that?
<MADodel>	That sums up most OS/2 apps
<Joachim>	haha
<Joachim>	sure
<MADodel>	os2r: In CONFIG.SYS
<MADodel>	Just move which ever is first to be after the other
<Joachim>	Perhaps it'll change a bit after renewed interest in those still useable and advanced apps...
<os2r>	MADodel: i forgot to put daniatapi in the config.sys....could that have done it?
<Sector>	Gotta get going, so long
<DSOM_eCS>	Folks - How would one print a spreadsheet with StarOffice 5.1 without grid lines?
<MADodel>	Is THEIBM ATAPI driver there?
<os2r>	MADodel: not now...i changed it to daniatap.flt since I moved that driver there
<os2r>	then i changed the driver in the config.sys to match it
<MADodel>	os2r: I have no idea, I never do much with IDE anymore
<os2r>	let me give it another shot
<Joachim>	Guys, as much as we like to support everyone... this is not the primary place for it.
<Joachim>	Are there any questions directed to Serenity, Mensys?
<os2r>	got it started but it's still playing around with that lousy cd changer and not finding the cd.
<os2r>	Joachim: could you explain the support program? i've purchased ecom but I presume that only includes the ga......the extra for support includes the updates for 2 years, correct?
<Joachim>	Ah!
<Joachim>	Good question actually!
<Joachim>	Fortunately we've arranged that all 'crucial system-fixes' will be provided to registered eComStation users for free (i.e. you can download them)
<Joachim>	In earlier statements, it would require you to purchase upgrade protection, even for those fixes.
<Joachim>	That is no longer required!
<Joachim>	You can now wait with the purchase of eComStation Upgrade Protection until there is an offering there which you think is worth your money.
<os2r>	Joachim: will they then be priced individually or for a time period?
<Joachim>	Specifically this will mean the applications/stuff IBM will release as *extra* (we've had TCPIP4.3 as an example)
<Joachim>	Nope. The pricing is the same.
<Joachim>	You purchase the UP for a period of one or two years.
<os2r>	thanks for clarifying that......and i don't have to decide that until the announcement of what's coming is made?
<Joachim>	But the period starts when you actually do the purchase. Actually we recommend everyone to hold off on the Upgrade Protection for now, until there will be considerably features added.
<Joachim>	No. You can start the UP subscription any time. You will have an overview of the contents, so you can decide when you see it fit to do the purchase.
<Joachim>	This is DIFFERENT from earlier announcements, btw.
<os2r>	yes, i see that
<Joachim>	okay. Everyone clear on this? It's rather important...
<Joachim>	btw, the support options you can buy at Indelible-Blue are different, because they offer telephone support on installation.
<Joachim>	Mensys currently has no such system in place.
<Joachim>	We'll try to do the best we can at the newsgroups
<MADodel>	Is it possible that Mensys may offer Installation support in the future?
<Joachim>	Well... we hope to be able to provide some of that, we actually do if you call us, but it is not as well arranged s Indelible Blue.
<Joachim>	Serenity is plnning on some sort of certifiction program, which may result in 'certified' support professionals (this is way far in the future of course ;-)
<MADodel>	understood
<MADodel>	Any word on the News Server?
<DSOM_eCS>	Ok....figured out the grid line issue.
<MADodel>	I believe Dan was talking with Kim about VOICE mirroring the eCS News groups
<David>	If you don't need me at the moment I will leave...